Female Luthiers

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Female Luthiers

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Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007

Female Luthiers

Are women capable of making fine flamenco guitars? I know I am not sexist, so please do not refer to me as one, but are there many respected female luthiers?

An intereting debate developed recently in classified (DeVoe Slot)

quote:

When a great luthier dies, he takes with him his skills, (unless he has a son, not a daughter!!!!)

Zorro what are you talking about??? are you saying a woman cannot build a great guitar? I guess you've never played one by Ana Espinoza. The wife of Rene Baarslag.

There arent' many women building guitars but I know there are some that can. If Santos Hernandez had a daughter that could build, why wouldn't she be able to do what her Father did? Especially if her Father taught her the skill?

Did he have a daughter and could she build??? I do not know.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 19:26:42

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

http://lafalseta.com/Shelton_Farretta.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 20:41:44

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

Well good question

I think that basically a woman could build a flamenco guitar equally good as any man. In reality however it is rather rare to find a woman being interested even in guitars and guitarplaying and even more rare to find one who is interested in guitarmaking. If i would find a woman who feels the same passion for flamenco guitars and flamenco guitar making as i do, i'm pretty sure i could easily pass all my knowledge to her and she could build flamenco guitars same as i do.
So far i didn't find that kind of woman, but who knows what kind of interests my little daughter will have once she have grown...

regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 20:48:05

Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Armando)

Well, I do hope that your daughter inherits your passion, but I very much doubt she will.
There must be an innate trait for playinig and making flamenco guitars. Women appear to be on par with men as far as dance and song but playing and the art of building appears to be the domain of men!
Contraversial, I know...but what the hel!!! and who is right??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 21:53:37

Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Patrick)

But Patrick, this lady needs a man to help her ????

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 21:55:22

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

quote:

But Patrick, this lady needs a man to help her ????

Absolutely not. With all of Susan's experience, as well as having a husband who's a guitarerro, I know Susan can build a guitar entirely by herself. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, she used to but I think that by combining their expertise in certain areas, they can work more efficiently. I'm sure John, will fill us in if he reads this.

The fact is there are not many women luthiers. Why? who knows. I can tell you that it's not because they can't do it or can't do it well.

I think even Amalia Ramirez has built a few guitars at one time or another. Women builders are out there.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 22:16:09

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

quote:

Well, I do hope that your daughter inherits your passion, but I very much doubt she will.

What's your theory behind this? I build and play guitar. Is there a chance my daughter will end up doing the same? 50%/50% chance I guess.

It depends on what inspires them I guess. Maybe more men and son's are inspired by their Father's work than their daughters.

Perhaps women are just not as drawn to guitar building as men are. There are plenty of women guitarists, especially on the classical side.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 22:20:22

Posts: 26
Joined: Aug. 25 2006

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

It's because guitar can be like a fine wine, it can serenade even the tightest legs apart. Women don't need to go to so much trouble to get laid.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 23:34:23

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

I know Susan can build a guitar entirely by herself. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, she used to but I think that by combining their expertise in certain areas, they can work more efficiently. I'm sure John, will fill us in if he reads this.

-------------
Susan is quite comfortable making a guitar from scratch (by "scratch" I mean starting with planks and billets); however like most people she has certain tasks that she prefers doing so for efficiency we divide responsibilities. Women are basically not a strong as men so I generally do the work that requires more muscle (i.e. resawing, etc.) since it's easier for me. That's the advantage of working together. The double body guitars we build would be almost impossible to assemble without the extra set of hands.

A couple of other successful women guitar makers are Cindy Burton and Gila Eban who both build classics. I'm sure there are many others.

John Shelton

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 14:57:01

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

All from Andalicía .....
Paula Bernal Gil
Catalina Gil Berenjeno
Ana María Espinosa Rodríguez
Susana López Martín
Susana Martín Hernández
Isabel Padial Gallego
Ana María Rubio Martínez
..... and quite a few anonymous women who work in factories producing guitars.
Don't forget that Spain is still a quite traditional society so you might not expect to find many of these names on guitar labels. Most affordable guitars are probably not made by the person whose name is on the label. So who made your guitar?
These names are from the book by Luis F Leal Pinar - Guitarreros de Andalicía: Artistas parra la sonanta.
Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 17:13:10

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

IMO the definite lack of female presence in luthiery is due to the fact that woodwork is not considered a "feminine" profession. Sometimes you really have to get your hands dirty, and perhaps this deters the majority of them. there are a good 40 or 50 students on my luthiery course, and NOT ONE of them is female. It probably isn't helped by the fact that most women aren't that keen on guitars. But unless a woman has some "direct link" to luthiery she is unlikely to venture into it. Thats not to say they couldn't do it, though... I'm sure they would be just as good as us...

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 17:28:19

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

I don't think it's so much the dirty work that deters them as the attitudes around women working with tools and crafts traditionally considered to be male domain. Like you said.. it's not considered feminine. So it's not encouraged. More of a social phenomenon. I'm sure women can build guitars just as well as men, but the are some extra boundaries to be crossed for women to cultivate and withold a passion for it, so for most it might be just too outside the box. If i were a builder, and had a daughter I'd certainly encourage her to have a swing at it.

Women generally have smaller hands, but on the other hand they (generally) have more sensitive hearing.

I guess that female builders and guitar technicians would likely have to cope with a lot of sceptic clients.. there are a lot of silly attitudes around.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 18:35:41

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

quote:

I guess that female builders and guitar technicians would likely have to cope with a lot of sceptic clients.. there are a lot of silly attitudes around.

There used to be a very competent female guitar tech down at Andy's Guitar Shop in Denmark Street, London. She helped me with numerous guitars, and really seemed to know what she was doing. She was rather cute too, if you could put up with the dirty hands...

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 19:24:10

Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

Women are basically not a strong as men so I generally do the work that requires more muscle (i.e. resawing, etc.) since it's easier for me.

I am sorry, but this argument just does not stand up! Is it only large muscular ladies who would be capable of making a guitar on their own? Which is exactly what I am saying.
Please tell me, and I am sure you will, could Susan make a guitar from scratch without your assistance.

You sound like a good team. Are both your names on your labels?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 21:53:25

Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

IMO the definite lack of female presence in luthiery is due to the fact that woodwork is not considered a "feminine" profession. Sometimes you really have to get your hands dirty, and perhaps this deters the majority of them

Is bus driving, mechanics, engineering? All traditional male occupations. Does this deter women these days?

Guitar making is an art right??? Who are statistically more adapt? I will give you a clue, IT IS NOT MEN!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 21:58:19

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

quote:

Is bus driving, mechanics, engineering? All traditional male occupations. Does this deter women these days?

well, actually, YES- it does. If you research the statistics (at least in certain countries, like England for example) the number of female engineers or mechanics is far less than that of male ones. Bus drivers the same, but to a lesser extent. As Mr Magenta says, if its not the messy work that deters them, its the attitudes of the other people who do those jobs.

quote:

Guitar making is an art right??? Who are statistically more adept? I will give you a clue, IT IS NOT MEN!!

Well, it is PARTLY an ART, but there is also a lot of NON-artistic stuff involved, such as the technical woodworking skills and the physics involved in producing the right tonal qualities within the woods themselves.

To say that ALL women are more creatively adept than men is a generalization. But I would agree that most women would posses AMPLE creativity, and enough so to make a good guitar...

As more women (and girls) take up playing the guitar, I'm sure more will also think about making their own. There's even a brand of electric guitars aimed at females called "Daisy Rock" (see picture). although it would be interesting to know if they are actually designed (and made) by women, or just a marketing ploy to cash in on the growing new generation of female strummers.

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 22:17:54

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

quote:

Is it only large muscular ladies who would be capable of making a guitar on their own? Which is exactly what I am saying.
Please tell me, and I am sure you will, could Susan make a guitar from scratch without your assistance.

You sound like a good team. Are both your names on your labels?

I was referring to how we divide our tasks. If Susan were built like me (6'2"/260 pounds) I doubt I would have been attracted to her. It would be senseless for her to do work that would be taxing for her but is easy for me. As I stated in the previous post she is eminently capable of making a guitar from scratch without my assistance. Her small hands are an enormous asset when it comes to doing repairs since my hands and forearms are much too big to reach inside the guitar and apply patches. The guitars are called Shelton-Farretta, my last name and her maiden name. A good team indeed, we've been building guitars together for almost 40 years.

John Shelton

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 28 2007 22:51:54

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to mrMagenta)

quote:

omen generally have smaller hands, but on the other hand they (generally) have more sensitive hearing.

If it was not for my playing (and looks perhaps) I would love to have smaller hands. Then I could more easily reach inside the guitars for finetuning and repair!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2007 9:26:51

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

I am female and have recently become quite interested in luthiery from reading some of the posts on this board - for me it is a natural progression from being interested in flamenco guitar to wanting to learn more about the instrument itself - i do think the guitar is one of the most beautiful musical instruments - then again I am biased. That said my interest only extends to reading about luthiery at the moment, but who knows in future..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2007 10:05:55

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to RobJe)

And Rob, don't forget Augustino LoPrinzi's daughter in Florida. Tom Nunez educated me to his guitars, and I have since learned that she has worked at his side for years and is now gradually taking over for him. She definitely makes her own guitars now.
I suspect that (like any occupation that is traditionally male-dominated) the only reason there aren't more female luthiers is that it takes time to overcome the preconceptions of the public. For a woman to dedicate her life to luthiery in the hope of one day being accepted is a big gamble. There are enough hurdles to overcome on the path to success/acceptance without adding the burden of overcoming public (mis)perceptions and assumptions of innate male superiority in the field. I'm trying to imagine an aspect of luthiery that actually requires male genetalia, and I'm not coming up with anything here. Okay. men are generally stronger, but luthiery isn't weight lifting.
Thanks for providing that list. Next time I'm in Granada, I'll check them out!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2007 21:53:28

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Per Hallgren)

quote:

If it was not for my playing (and looks perhaps) I would love to have smaller hands. Then I could more easily reach inside the guitars for finetuning and repair!

Yeah, good point. I wasn't making a case of men being more biologically suited for the job or anything like that, I think arnold sums it up really well.. I too can't see any use for male genetalia in guitar making.

And as for playing, being a luthier means you can build a guitar for yourself, in a scale that perfectly fits your hands. :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2007 6:55:29

johnguitar

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 10 2006

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

Well I know a few fine female guitar makers but have never seen a flamenco made by any of them. However, I met Manuela Reyes on friday with her father (buying spruce tops from my neighbour here in Granada) between the passion she shows for the guitar and the teacher that she has, she will be the one to watch! She says that she has been learning a for a short time but she loves it.

John Ray
Granada

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2007 7:37:48

fivealive

Posts: 10
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: brooklyn

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

that's ridiculous - gender doesn't affect musicianship or craftsmanship! if you asked that question about anything other than guitars, people would think you were crazy. guitars have a stronger association with men than with women only if you used to read trashy 80s rock mags (which largely featured men dressed, more or less, as women).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2007 3:48:06

stephen hill

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to johnguitar)

I was at Reyes's workshop last friday and saw a guitar made by her. looked good.

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stephen hill - granada spain
http://www.spanishguitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 13 2007 19:18:15

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to stephen hill)

quote:

I was at Reyes's workshop last friday and saw a guitar made by her. looked good.

That's really interesting. I had no idea he had a daughter who was learning the trade. Did you notice if she used the Reyes head? did you see the label? That is really cool. I hope she does well.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2007 0:03:37

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Zorro02)

The guitar shape is considered 'femanine' curvacious etc. If women made guitars, I mean if things had gone the other way and most guitar makers were female, would the guitar have been angular? Just a thought.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2007 10:44:48

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to Jim Opfer)

I think your right Jim. The Sitar was invented by a woman.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2007 13:14:01

nhills

Posts: 230
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: West Des Moines, IA USA

RE: Female Luthiers (in reply to TANúñez)

LOL

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"The duende is God's orgasm." - Antonio Canales

"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." - Santos Hernandez (as translated by R. Brune)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2007 15:06:29