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Tinbender

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Mar. 23 2006
 

Compas? 

I am sure that this has been beaten into the ground but what is the easiest way to count? Graf mentions 12,1,2,3, etc and 1,2,3,4,5,6 1+2+3+ in two different time signatures. The second gives me a better feel but will that cause problems with dancers, other guitarists? I know he shows the second way to show the "feel" I think? His example deals with Bulerias. I know the time is the same. Compas just gives me problems. I can play in time, most of my music emphasizes the accent with a Golpe or hard down stroke but I need to feel the accents if I am to truly master and understand what I am playing. I can't play Sevillanas, Rumbas and Tangos forever.
Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 3:46:18
 
duende

Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Compas? (in reply to Tinbender

For Buleria i would learn to feel like a 6/8 +3/4 (12 , 3 , 6, 8, 10)
also 1 2 3 4 5 6 ( 12 ,2 ,4 ,6 ,8 ,10 ) then theres the 12 ,3 ,7 ,8 ,10.

for solea i count 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 but i feel 3 , 7 ,8 10 ,12

alegrias feels more like 12 ,3 ,7 ,8 10 depending on the tempo.

the 6 counts like fandangos de huelva and sevillanas i would count/feel

1 * * 4 * * or * *3 * *6

but remember that the accents are heard and felt in the musical phrasing
i didn´t get the 12 count cycle in any palo untill i stopped counting and started to LISTEN to the music. It´s realy all there, learn a basic Ramon montoya/Paco Aguillera falseta and listen to it.
you´ll hear all the accents there.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 3:58:47
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13404
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Compas? (in reply to Tinbender

I don't recommend counting at all. Learn some sort of rhythm guitar strumming patterns and be able to keep it steady with a metronome. Does not matter what pattern really, just do it in rhythm over and over. If you can't get feedback from a teacher or friend that knows compas, then upload here a bit of it and for sure someone will inform you if it is "in compas" or not.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 9:42:58
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Compas? (in reply to Tinbender

I think that you should learn to distinguish betweem movement in two, three and four beats.

Bulerias and allegrias mix these three feels up and often with syncopations which can make it difficult to keep your place if you havent done enough active listening.

Believe it or not if you can learn some simple conducting it will make things MUCH CLEARER pretty quickly.
For two your hand goes down on one and up on two (simple).
For three down and out on one, in on two and up on three.
For four down and out on one, in on two, out on three and up on four.

Now cover the strings with a sponge or table cloth and try strumming rhythms on open strings one time signature at a time. Left hand conducting.

When you really get the feel of two three and four try mixing them up . For example two to three and back. Three to four and back. Two to four and back.

Now in alegrias there are different feels, here are some common ones ( all starting where flamencos count one

3+3+3+3 ( traditional )
2+3+4+3 ( traditional )
4+4+4 (modern Vincente Amigo uses this on Maestro Sanlucar ).

Also the buleria rhythm can be used ( 3 + 3 + 4 + 2 ) but this will start where flamencos count 12. This means that the system before will have its last beat chopped off.

The real difficulty with compass in all the solea derived forms is that they all use several different compasses. When you move between them ( consciously or subconsciously ) you need to make sure that you are putting together the pieces of your Jigsaw puzzzle correctly.

Counting to twelve doesnt really give you any idea of where you are. You really need to know wethere you are on a downbeat an upbeat or between them. You can get this from playing with a dancer and watching their movements ( if they are a good musicaian that is ) or by conducting.

Unfortunately you wont get it from most published scores since they pretend that pieces are in one time signature all the way through. Which is nonsense and one of the biggest barriers that we have to understanding flamenco.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 14:17:49
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