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RE: Music Theory: Why?
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Kevin)
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quote:
It is odd to me that much of the criticism is coming from a luthier, a soloist, and an older gentleman who admittedly knows nothing and has little experience.
I assume that your phrase, "older gentleman who knows nothing and has little experience," refers to me, in which case I would appreciate a more precise description taken from my post. My "full disclosure" statement reads, "In the spirit of full disclosure, I know little of music theory, and my playing ability leaves much to be desired." You have taken my honest statement and twisted it to read, "admittedly knows nothing and has little experience."
While I may be deficient in my knowledge of music theory, and my playing ability and talent may not reach the level of many Foro members, you have no idea what my level of knowledge and experience is, thus rendering your statement, quoted above, pure speculation on your part without foundation.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 30 2015 17:47:03
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Mark2
Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Kevin)
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I love music theory, studying music, etc. Love to learn new things. I've been playing music a long time and managed to play with some really great players. The greatest of all knew his theory backwards and forwards-he played in many orchestras. But then you have flamenco, and it's pretty clear that most of the greats don't know it formally. That I think will change as we move forward. Kevin I really appreciate your posts as you have a perspective that is different from anyone else here. But so does (G)Todd(that was clever), who happens to be a really great musician. I didn't see anything in what he wrote that was a put down. As for Stephan, he builds great flamenco guitars and knows everyone in the SF flamenco scene, likely because he has supported that scene extensively. Bill is an older guy who has a lot of experience in life so I'm inclined to consider his posts carefully. I read that you are going to spain to study and that is awesome. But given the fact that you have been at it a while, I'm surprised you haven't developed a thicker skin. You seem to really be affected by posts that disagree with your viewpoint, and I'm wondering how you reconcile that trait with the obvious challenges any non Spaniard faces in the flamenco world. In any case, I hope you keep posting, especially when you get to Spain.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kevin
Simple solution.
If you don't like micro breweries, don't go to them. But don't go to a microbrewery and insult the next table, some of the members of which are discussing the difference between Stouts and IPAs. If someone has developed a taste for stouts through experience and your mad because they order and talk about something other than PBR or Old Milwaukee, that's not ****, that is your own hangup.
If JasonMc or Ricardo were around my town I would humble myself and study with either of them. I also really admire John Walsh's playing. As for guitar, one could do worse than studying with Grisha. He's a monster. It is odd to me that much of the criticism is coming from a luthier, a soloist, and an older gentleman who admittedly knows nothing and has little experience.
My corner of flamenco is humble, VERY HUMBLE. But I am sure that 70 shows a year for 5 years (continued performance over 15), playing for classes three days a week for 5 years, studying with two masters, and doing graduate work, is more flamenco (and academic) experience than Bananaboy, Godd, and Barkelworth have.
Sincere intentions of sharing something is anything but solipsistic and need not be erudite.
I also find it sad that many people have not learned that "we just don't have the emoticons to express" things the ways we sometimes want. Add to that the fact that you never know what is going on in somebody's life and these attacks/criticisms are deplorable.
So sad.
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Date Jan. 30 2015 20:54:47
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to JohnWalshGuitar)
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This cracks me up that you guys are so hot under the collar about theory.
Really what flamenco guitar is, is accompanying song forms that don't really need to be over theorized. You can accompany Alegrias all day and night with four to six chords, a couple inversions, and two or three good falsetas.
Flamenco at the core is just that. What makes it good is the way the player senses and knows from deep listening where to play which of the four or five chords in Alegrias.
Then a guitarist needs two, maybe four kinds of rasgeuado, some alza pua, a couple of closes for dancers, an extra two or three kinds of remate' to change it up. Add a Silencio you can play with your thumb, and casteana section, and the skill of changing speed fluently as a dancer speeds up, some ways of marking time, and couple of special fasetas for foot work sections....a buleria de cadiz form...a big close in the end..
You don't even need picado, and you don't need theory. You just need four or five chords, and a lot of listening to know where to put a few well learned techniques.
Most people that talk about endlessly about theory can't accompany for beans.
This is like putting Decarte' before Decaballo.
Learn to accompany some and then add theory to your bag. I'd rather hear people who know how to listen and play flamenco in a very solid basic way than hear talk of harmonic analysis ect. You can do that, but you don't need to.
That said, knowing the musical structure and how it works is not a bad thing, but even the guitar players I know who are geniuses at theoretical analysis would rather a student put more importance on careful listening than advanced analysis.
How many times have I gone to a guitar teachers house and heard them say: The students need to listen more, not know more. ?? Many times.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jan. 31 2015 1:22:49
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Music Theory: Why? (in reply to Sr. Martins)
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quote:
So... you just read the thread title and assumed all that by the number of posts, right? Looks like it..
I read the whole thing in 2007, and I have been thinking. Then i read the recent add-onns and thought you guys have lost your marbles.
Jason, Todd, Ricardo, some times Grisha several others have given a lot of theoretical discussion. There is no lack of teachers to give good FREE theory explanations. What is the big deal?
My personal opinion is that to be a Flamenco player you get rated by how well you accompany and that does not have a lot to do with theory really. If you can't accompany you're not a complete flamenco player yet, in my opinion. Solo playing is just icing on the cake.
Accompaniment is the heart and soul of flamenco playing. Where a guitar player throws in little pinches here and there to help a singer or dancer is the art, if we don't have that leave the guitar in the guitar case.
I'd rather hear a guitar player do excellent palmas than play a half assed solo.
How many of you can do competent palmas that a pro dancer would approve of? Not many I wager, and that is way more important than music theory. But the problem is that most people don't get that palmas before guitar is a priority, they want to be a star, not real a flamenco who can sing, play palmas and dance a bit.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Jan. 31 2015 1:54:40
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