RE: Lets be negative

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legrec

Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to RobJe)

quote:

A dead art form looks back to some kind of golden age and tries to preserve it.

I agree RobJe, but it's "only" 50% of the point IMO. Perhaps we can see the necessary counter-part of this reflexion :
A dead art form is looking for the future and forget it's past.

That's why there are debates, because of these "lower and upper" limit - one refers to the lower limit, and the other to the upper one... And also why it's so difficult to understand and act satisfyingly between tradition and modernity, in all human fields. We musn't stay too much in the past, but also we musn't look too far in the future...

This is "theory". I feel that practically, each human era or period is marked by a tendency to fall in one or the other grid of view. A majority of people are refering inconsciously to one or the other limit, according to the "spirit of the era". And my global opinion in this world (and i'm "only" 30) is that the second threat is today much more powerfull than the first.
And we seems to be in a "tomorow will be better, don't bother with the past" era. Capitalistic economy is giving the tempo here. It cant stop or even slow down. No matter we've got everything to live satisfyingly, we MUST raise the production and the consumption by 10% each year to be "well". And I suppose this general state of mind influence cultural and social thinking and behaviors.

One exemple among many is Japanese society, wich is often described abroad as a "perfect" combination between tradition and modernity, by "modern" journalists. Ask japanese people or just learn a little on the country and you will clearly see that it's rather a 10% tradition and 90% modernity "equilibrium"...Yes, there are old temples and people are still sleeping on futons or receiving a gift with both hands. But when it comes to "old" values of thinking and behavior (humility, patience, simplicity, hate of greed) most japanese folks will tell you these times are clearly over and forgotten.

Thus, the "decorum" of the past had been preserved, but some fundamental lessons of history have been broadly forgotten. For the sake of the future. At the global cost of the degradation of Japanese civilisation, IMO.

From my side, speaking of Benise music for exemple, one can tell me : "don't worry, it will die by itself" or "what's the point, he's making flamenco for non-afficionados, he's "popularizing" it". I will accept these points, relatively.
But will still think that in the end it deserves flamenco past AND future way more than that it serves it.
But i agree also that this it's not fully a "traditional/modern" debate, it's also an "artistic honesty / money,fame&glory" debate... But there are still some links, as perhaps one key debate of modern flamenco is the "massification of flamenco", by opening it to new genres and audiences and forgetting a little the "rawest" and hardest to hear or understand aspects of flamenco.
And that's a main point IMO of the traditional/modern debate : modernity seems to say "hey, be easy, everything must be accessible, fluid and fun. All that is hard to get by, painfully slow, and requires tons of patience and efforts is an old and boring thing". That's exactly Benise music "fundamentals", as far as I can see.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2007 11:29:44

buleria

Posts: 88
Joined: Jan. 6 2005

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to legrec)

Mmm, about one inch of snow in the UK and everything is shut, so .. I have time on my hands! Pet moans:

1. Yes, Kate - the flute! Have not yet actually shouted 'shoot the flute' during a performance but always tempted.

2. Dancers who don't appreciate guitarists enough.

3. People who perform under Spanish names (especially those involving a la or an el) when they're not Spanish.

4. Dancers and guitarists with absolutely no interest in the cante.

5. Casa Patas for charging me a lot of money for a very bad show.

6. Audiences who talk through the guitar solos/singing and only shut up for the dancers.

7. People who write lists like this and presume anyone is going to be interested!!!

Still snowing.......Karenanne

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2007 12:53:40

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to legrec)

You know, I dont mind the flute so much - but it was very much of its time (ie 1986!). but what i cannot stand is that accordian sounding thing so beloved of Tomatito and Vicente - that brings to mind a French bistro with check tablecloth. I just skip those ones..

I'm not sure what instrument it actually is, will check the sleeve notes (if anyone's interested)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2007 13:38:34

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to Florian)

quote:

il just throw them out the closest window out oh the highest building

Then some poor passer by in the street sees than lying there and wonders how those two wee terrapins got murdered and tied up together

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2007 16:51:41

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to legrec)

Actually, I quite LIKED the flute parts in "Solo Quiero Caminar"... I thought they worked reasonably well, although generally I'm not a great fan of them in Flamenco. As for accordians, I DO like those! there's some great Irish and Bavarian music which uses them, but its obviously an acquired taste.

Jb

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2007 19:44:46

Matic

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to buleria)

quote:

1. Yes, Kate - the flute! Have not yet actually shouted 'shoot the flute' during a performance but always tempted.

As JBASHORUN, I like flute in some particular songs. I just can't imagine Buana Buana King Kong without one. It fits perfectly.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2007 20:07:12

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to legrec)

And I dont like this threat here.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2007 20:12:36

legrec

Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

And I dont like this threat here.

No problem. It's a "let's be negative" thread..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 8 2007 22:45:35

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: Lets be negative (in reply to legrec)

quote:

Actually, I quite LIKED the flute parts in "Solo Quiero Caminar"...

Yes I love the flute in Caminar and on Palenque in the One summer night album. But think it would sound odd today - do many modern recordings still use the flute?

And I like the accordian too - just not in flamenco!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2007 8:39:42