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Fandango de Huelva and foot tapping
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 RE: Fandango de Huelva and foot tapping (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Hi Anders,
Same advice as I gave to Don about the "Flamenco" DVD.
(There are two guitarists...the first one makes it really clear).
quote:
and where do you enter falsetas......?
Some may start on the "on" the beat and some may not .. 
Paco de Lucia's FdH from the "Live at the Teatro Real" album is rock steady, and though advanced technically is great just to listen to and get a feel for how the the falsetas fit the compás.
There have been several posts on FdH on the Forum over the past months, if you want to try to find them.
I agree with Henrik, it's golpe,2,3,golpe,5,6,golpe,8,9,golpe,11,12.
(or any other number system you want to use)
It feels weird because the golpe is on the off-beat, (like 1 and your Western-music educated brain wants you to golpe on the 3).
cheers
Ron
_____________________________
A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart
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Date Jan. 8 2007 16:48:21
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Fandango de Huelva and foot tapping (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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"I find it difficult or weird to go 3 tapping over the basic compás which is 1 x 3 x x x "
You neglected the important count 5 rhythmic close.
Yet again maybe some confusion without corresponding chords to know HOW one would count it. And starting a falseta is no different than anything else in Flamenco, once you understand the compas as a loop, the only thing you need is the proper "ending", you can start manyways. And once again the half compas comes into play. AND once again, compound meter where you have 3/4 against 6/8, and vice versus, PLUS the subdivision synchopations. Really it is not so hard if you can already play bulerias/solea etc.
So, I like to think of head and tail again. E7 is on the down beat, then you have Am, G on the down beat, although you can sometimes "feel" that and leave it blank or golpe, then F-E. So how to count it?
If you superimpose this on the "count" of Solea, I would Put the first E chord on the 12, so you change to Am on count 2. The accented Am then is count 4. Then G chord on 6, F is 7, and E is 8. Golpe on 9, then rasgueado accent on 10. The FOOT or basic heavy feel is 12,3,6,9 as mentioned earlier. Just like in bulerias or jaleos you can have that feel and play off the foot at times, you just have to get used to this feeling. Bulerias is often the reverse, where the music might accent in 3's, but your foot would be on 2,4,6,8,10,12. Fandandos is opposite this feel, you often emphasize 12,2,4,6,8, etc, with the music, but your internal beat feeling has to be 12,3,6,9. I would say it can "switch around" more in bulerias than fandangos. Again you will find half compases, because the 4 and 10 can both be the "closing" point. Especially with the first line of a sung copla you will find it.
Falsetas can start on 10 like a pickup, or 4, since there is symmetry, or 12, the downbeat, it depends. The copla relative major type falsetas usually start on or after 12, the E phrygian variations between coplas more often start with a pickup. But I don't think of that as a rule, just a generalization. The most important thing is to internalize the 12,3,6,9 feeling, and learn how the accents of the music are often "against" that.
Cool thing is once you get real comfortable with fangangos, a lot of those phrases work great in the other 12 palos. PDL often played those fandango type pickups in his bulerias or jaleos. He did a fandango alzapua in his solea por buleria on "Almoraima". Etc, etc.
Ricardo
PS, I don't like the 12 count for fandango, and don't use it with dancers, but just here to illustrate how the feeling of fandango and solea could be super imposed. I have seen transcriptions of fandangos written many ways. To me is is easiest to understand as 3/4 where the down beat is "one" of course, foot always on one, or in 6/4 the foot would be one and four. 6/4 does not give that info normally, so I prefer 6/8, but very slow bpm. (eigth note= 150+or-)
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Date Jan. 8 2007 17:35:08
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: Fandango de Huelva and foot tapping (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Hi Anders,
In old recordings, I hear a repeating six-beat pattern accented on 3 and 5, very similar to sevillanas: one, two, THREE, four, FIVE, six. However, most contemporary artists seem to be tapping a steady ternary pattern on 1 and 4, similar to cante abandolao: ONE, two, three, FOUR, five six. I suspect that part of the great flavor of "Huelva" is brought on by this tricky polyrhythm, but I find it hard to swing with the ternary tapping.
I agree that foot-tapping is good in general. Some people might argue that, like nail-tapping, it's best to be very careful and deliberate about it. But in fandangos de Huelva, it adds a lot of flavor--you can practically stomp--and it seems to anchor the crazy polyrhythm, as well.
According to this six-beat rhythm, most falsetas start on either 1 or 5, so it's important to be aware of how this all fits into the resolution to the tonic (E or A) on the third beat: There's usually one beat of silence on 4, and this affects the
rhythmic structure before and after the falseta.
I'd suggest that your move to Huelva will be the ideal opportunity to learn how to do all this once you're there!
Best wishes,
Norman
Flamenco Guitar Transcriptions
http://www.ctv.es/guitar/
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Date Sep. 9 2007 9:29:18
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Fandango de Huelva and foot tapping (in reply to Ricardo)
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I think there’s a big difference between the maintenance of long-running discussions, such as found in your examples, and that of the resurrection of ancient threads to post questions to long gone members along the lines of how many guitars did Paco have after his death, for example.
In the case of this thread, my post was ill considered, and I would also argue that your addition would be more relevant and appropriate if covered by either by a link or a new thread.
Necroposts can have a lot of negative side effects. There’s a reason most forums either discourage or forbid them.
One of the beautiful things about this Foro is that it is largely self-moderated. People speak freely, some may say a little too freely, but that’s part of the charm of it, in many ways. There’s a wealth of knowledge in these pages, spiced with humour and examples of human frailty. Necroposts play with something fragile, in a sense they break an implied social contract, and can have the unintended effect of throttling open discussion. We shouldn’t be throwing past discussions in people’s faces, or ultimately we may find we’re talking to an empty room.
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Date Jun. 11 2022 17:06:39
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A teacher once told me that most falsetas (he was counting 3) started on 2... Thats like the pickup falsetas. I have a wonderfull Sabicas falseta that starts on what Ricardo calls 4... Thats understandable, but remember to do a half compás before, or just smile and say "medio compas tio" to the ones listening to you or doing palmas. 
. I´m progressing. I can now tap and play compás or coplas at the same time. Rons right its more weird than difficult. Nice compás though. Kinda wobly 
