Buying a guitar in Spain

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DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

Buying a guitar in Spain

Heya,

I'm just curious... how much money would be saved when buying directly from a luthier in Spain, instead than going through sellers like GSI? I'm sick of practicing on my cheap classical and I'm travelling to Madrid next summer.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 22:16:29

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Dude, that blanca you're making should be ready anytime now... that will hopefully be better than a cheap classical, que no?

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 22:21:26

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN

Dude, that blanca you're making should be ready anytime now... that will hopefully be better than a cheap classical, que no?

Jb

Papers and exams are killing me... can't finish the guitar.

Well, I don't share your optimism in term of playability... there are so many things I should have done differently. I glued the bridge last week-end... prefect measurements, but the damn thing has a gap on the bass side, I don't know what happened exactly... everything was well clamped. How can I take it off without messing with everything around it now? I also sanded through my lacquer finish on a few spots... again and dented my near perfect finish on top. Anyways, I'll recrown the frets and make the nut/saddle and find out, but I'm under the impression that my neck is too thick and so is my fingerboard.

As for buying one in Spain, I'm just curious. If I'm to find a great quality/price guitar over there, I wont pass, simply because I wont often be in Spain in my life. I just wonder how much money stores like GSI get from selling imported guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2006 2:41:47

ykabban

Posts: 251
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

quote:

Heya,

I'm just curious... how much money would be saved when buying directly from a luthier in Spain, instead than going through sellers like GSI?

No money would be saved. Well...... depends really. I've brought back a guitar from Spain in my hands six times now. I don't know if I'll do it again, unless I see something I can't pass up. For many makers, it is now cheaper to buy through GSI. I think the Euro will continue to kick a dollar's ass for a while, but who knows.............

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2006 4:57:02

flamencoguru

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Don't think that you're going to save a bunch of money. If you're going to be there anyways, maybe. But, you still have the factor of knowing what guitar to buy. Madrid is a nut house when it comes to buying a guitar. You really have to be careful. To be honest, you may save only a few hundred bucks when you look at the big picture. And like ykabban said, the euro is definitely not in our favor.

Just my 2 cents.

Un saludo, Errol

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2006 13:04:39

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

quote:

I glued the bridge last week-end... prefect measurements, but the damn thing has a gap on the bass side, I don't know what happened exactly... everything was well clamped. How can I take it off without messing with everything around it now?

Doc, perhaps the top of the soundboard warped before you got the bridge on, who knows. But if there's a gap, that might be a problem... I've heard stories of bridges "popping off" the first time people tune their guitar to pitch. Thats why the fit needs to be perfect. It IS possible to remove a glued bridge once it is already stuck down. The way I was taught is by applying heat to the bridge (by using a household clothes iron, for example), and then sliding a palette knife gently under the bridge to get it off. But if you've finished (ie. lacquered) the bridge already, you may not be able to use the hot iron. The spot where the bridge used to be may need cleaning up before fixing a new one.

Its either that, or take your chances with the gap.

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2006 13:38:59

DTFrontera

Posts: 7
Joined: Sep. 13 2005

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Like most have already said, you won't be saving much, if at all. For some makers, it's even more expensive to go direct (i.e. Conde Hermanos).

And then factor in customs/duties/importing fees (customs alone is 8.7%, don't know about the rest), VAT (17.5%), possible local taxes, etc. While it's technically possible to recover some of the VAT, it's a red-tape nightmare that will take months and drive you insane.

So, even if you manage to find a better price, don't forget the hidden costs and hassles. I'm personally glad dealers take care of that, especially when their prices are almost always the same as direct, if not better. Compare Conde(www.condehermanos.com) Ramirez, etc. - last I checked there's no dramatic price hike that people like to accuse the dealers of.

Regarding how much money they're making? Like any business, they usually buy at wholesale prices, and then recover their costs/make profit by selling at normal retail prices. In other words, the dealers aren't making their money by inflating final prices, they make money by buying at wholesale prices. It's the basis of retail business.

Finally, going to Spain to find a guitar is nowhere near as glamorous as it seems. I would only consider it again if I was going anyway (as you are, I realize).

My $.02

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2006 17:54:39

Reece

Posts: 21
Joined: Oct. 31 2006

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

If you do it, take a battered old guitar case with you. You're less likely to get pulled up in customs that way and may avoid the duty.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2006 18:06:45

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to Reece)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reece

If you do it, take a battered old guitar case with you. You're less likely to get pulled up in customs that way and may avoid the duty.

I would simply have declared less than the real price.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 3:04:25

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Well, instead of talking about hypothetic differences in price etc, a simple test can be done.

Contact the builders you are interested in and get their prices. To this you add expenses like state tax.

Then contact the dealers like GSI or La Falseta and ask for their price for the same guitar delivered in the US...

Then you´ll know.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 7:48:39

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

I know a builder. This is his web. http://www.eliassonguitars.com/

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 7:57:51

PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Hi,

i've bought 3 guitars on different trips to Andalucia so far. I think i saved a great deal of money. However you should be prepared that in case you plan to visit one of the better known makers, they dont have "takeaway" guitars available. You can go there, maybe play a sample, but then you'd have to place an order and await it to be finished at home. I have visited lots of workshops in Granada out of curiosity and thats what almost everyone there told me.

If you look for a normal student instrument though you should be lucky. Something around 1,500 euros or so but they are not made by the luthiers themselves but rather by their assistants and students.

Anyhow i compared the price i payed to that asked on the internet and i must say that for some guitars i saved 50% or more. However i live within the EU so i dont have to worry about duty.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2006 8:07:37

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

I will be in Jerez, and Seville next week. I thought I would check out guitars as I'm there. Anyone know a good place for new or second hand or instruments?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2009 13:32:56

frhout

Posts: 453
Joined: Apr. 28 2005
From: France

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Buying a guitar without any idea of luthier or shop is especially stressful. Most luthiers will imply that their guitars are best. Even specialist shops may not give sound advice apart from the more expensive, the better, or something like "choosing a guitar is as difficult as choosing a woman!" If I have the cash, for 2800 euros, I would now go for an Eliasson blanca.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2009 14:16:53

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

A few things you might try: Go visit David Serva in Madrid and ask him about guitar makers and used shops in Madrid. Sometimes you can find good used guitars in the Rastro.

Go to Sevilla and get on Francisco Barbas list and save your money to get one of his guitars. In my humble opinion he's one of the masters who is under rated. Most people drool over new ( and often quite medocre) Conde's and that's sad when there are Bellido's and Barba's to commission.

In Granada you have Bellido- hands down the best blanca I ever heard belongs to Antonio Moya and it's by old man Bellido. And in Granada you got your man Anders down there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2009 14:52:03

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

I bought an Andres Dominguez in Sevilla a couple of years ago.... It was a fast buy and one of the worst guitars I´ve ever owned...

So,.. stay relaxed and avoid fast buys.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2009 15:18:46

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to Doitsujin)

Thanks for the advice and the reminder not to buy impulsively! I know how hard it is to find a good guitar but thought as I'm there maybe worth a look.
I have tried a few 'great' (and expensive) guitars lately that I didn't want to buy. I am thinking about commissioning Anders Eliasson. Anyone in or near London have one of his they would let me take a look at?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2009 15:38:54

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Orson

I Sevilla, you should try José Louis Postigo´s shop. He sometimes has good guitars, but its not cheap.
Finding a good guitar on a vacation is not easy. Most of us guitarbuilders dont stock many guitars (fortunately they are sold

)
I have one here which is for sale. Its a 2A. It plays and sounds VERY well. 2000,-€
It can be tryed and compared with my own guitar, whenever you feel like. It has a soundport

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Attachment (1)

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2009 0:37:00

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Youtube here:

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2009 0:40:44

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Does it have to be a spanish maker there are plenty of great makers that dont live in spain! hmm I just noticed this is an old post that has been brought back! Did you go to spain and get a bargain? did you finish your own build and did it sound great?

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2009 3:28:11

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2009 9:37:20

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Hi Bash!

Hope you had a good time there!

Wow...hanging a guitar outside a shop....

In Glasgow, Leeds, Birmingham...it would last about 5 minutes!

(Especially Leeds and Birmingham...or in fact anywhere else in England come to that...

)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2009 10:12:32

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2009 10:26:08

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

In Granada you have Bellido- hands down the best blanca I ever heard belongs to Antonio Moya and it's by old man Bellido

Just for the record, Antonio has been playing a Manuel Bellido guitar. The picture posted by JB shows the shop of Manuel's brother, Jose.

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 10:56:24

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to RobJe)

Can anyone tell me where in Seville to find the shop of José Louis Postigo?
Anyone know the street address (or website)?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 12:52:24

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Postigo have two shops in Sevilla.

one- C/.Hemando Colón34

the other-
C/. Mesón del Moro, 12 (in the Barrio Santa Cruz).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 13:47:51

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

quote:

Especially Leeds and Birmingham...or in fact anywhere else in England come to that... )

ill be in leeds soon ron dont scare me !!

Bellido guitars seem real cool , i love the sound the player gets on the amir hadad , f. NUnez cd cool sound

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 14:14:23

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

faustino nunez cd......sorry the plaer is great on there he uses a bellido its a real organic

how far from bellidos shop to the alhambra ?? that be cool next month when im there

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 14:37:40

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (in reply to DoctorX2k2)

Well, i think it depends on what you want.
If you are dying for a Reyes-Conde-Ramirez-Other famous name, perhaps you may save some money, on that you may play many of their guitars before buying(which is not the case as when buying from an internet service or something).
But if you want, you may find imho equally good guitars at a much lower cost, from luthiers that are not so famous.

I would say...you go to Spain => you buy a great guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 5:57:01