NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist

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[Poll]

NEW POLL-When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist

after playing for baile 10 years and cante ten years

8% (3)

Once they have mastered compas

13% (5)

once they have mastered all flamenco techniques and compas

16% (6)

once they play 'la cucaracha' and yell ole at the end

13% (5)

when they play with true aire

22% (8)

when they can play 'la feria' just like juan martin

5% (2)

once theyve ripped off a car with some gypsies

5% (2)

once they wear the frilly shirts and sing 'po dom pom pom'

2% (1)

once they become a 'guiri in denial'

0% (0)

after completing a 16 hour shift in the captain beefcakes factory

11% (4)

Total Votes : 36

(last vote on : Dec. 23 2015 16:38:33)

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Guest

NEW POLL-When can someone truley say...

when do you think someone can call themselves a flamenco guitarist?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 5:52:29

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

Ahahaha omg u obsessed with Polls !!!

personaly , i wont even glorifie this by answering.

its silly lol who cares

when i play at a wedding or private partie to people who never seen it before or even care about it, i am flamenco and everything it stands for lol.

and even then i represent it better than what they tought they knew before.

8 out of 10 people expect Otmar libert rumbas and La cucaracha.

i kind of feel stuck in the midlle , there i am not cause i dont do La Cucaracha here I am not because not sure why, whatever the standards are that we ourselfs set, they always just beyond my reach lol we made sure of that, because god forbid we dont wanna be disrespectfull and arrogant

better off letting people continue to think la cucaracha is flamenco or instead of playing take a dvd to the wedding and make people watch Camaron.

very confusing lol

like in Australia i am romanian and in romania i am australian

i am a man with out country and without a genre

very sad

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 6:05:13

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

i love the polls, polls are good value, its more interactive.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 6:09:19

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

and without a genre very sad

so dont you class yourself as a flamenco guitarist? you dont play any other style that im aware of.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 6:10:55

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

so dont you class yourself as a flamenco guitarist? you dont play any other style that im aware of.

lol, i know exactly what i am ...

romanian living in australia playing spanish guitar for australians dancing spanish dance and acompaning spanish singers leaving in australia singing for australians doing the spanish dance.

not flamenco enough to the general public cause i dont do la chucaracha

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 6:15:52

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

run that by me again

hey i ajusted the poll to suit your 'la cucarcha' theory....sure u dont wanna vote?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 6:18:32

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

there I voted

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 6:21:24

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

lol...i new youd warm up to it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 6:23:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

When they can play bulerias for a singer they never met before, in an informal juerga. Not as hard as it sounds, but no "flamenco guitarist" should want to turn down such an opportunity. Oh, unless their nails or not in good shape at that moment.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 10:29:35

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

Yes, the beauty of flamenco is that you could go on stage with someone you never met before and still make it work, how long that takes depends on how easy you learn and how much you play.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 10:40:59

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

Yes, the beauty of flamenco is that you could go on stage

Stage and "informal juerga" are very different things. My point is, at some point the guitarist has to not be shy and just jump in and be proud of what he knows, how ever little or much it might be.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 10:52:00

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

Jumping in and destroying everything by being out wouldnt really help you or anyone else. But if you have the basics down it doesnt matter how complex or high level you might have of course.

And in modern choreografies you would need to rehearse to be able to follow, but just doing traditional stuff wouldnt require too much preparation and thats what i meant.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 10:57:28

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

Jumping in and destroying everything by being out wouldnt really help you or anyone else.

It would be a good learning experience actually, especially for those that may think more of themselves than they should, and if things go good for the shy guy who thinks he knows very little, it is a big confidence booster. In a juerga, you are allowed certain kinds of mistakes. On stage it is a different story, that is what I am getting at. The "juerga" is a great place to learn, better than your bedroom or being all rehearsed for the stage.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 17:20:48

Posts: 320
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Ricardo)

This reminds me of one of my favorite flamenco moments

Mexican vaccation
After having dinner and enjoying a fantastic 2 hour flamenco show
We ended up staying late at the table with the performers
The guitar was passed around .... party time
My biggest problem was I speak no spanish and only a few others spoke english
The other problem was I knew very little flamenco back then

After the lead guitarist complained of sore fingers
I finally gave in and played.....nervously.... a very simple slow solea
almost all I knew at that time
By the third compas a man at the end of the table started singing
so accidently I was in my first cante accompanyment
It was a fantastic thing.. I felt his need for me to change chords and such
When he stopped singing. I almost felt lost. I continued to play.. slow simple solea.

The woman that was sitting across from me ( the best of the dancers)
was looking right into my eyes ...she was speaking in spanish
I had no idea what she was saying
This went on for what seemed like forever It was very tense
I thought that my playing was insufficient and that she was scolding me
So at the end of a compas I slowed to a stop. It seemed like the right time
She just continued to stare at me and speek in words I didnt know

When she stopped everyone gave a hearty applause
Confused. I turned to the guitarist ( one of the only english speaking people)
to ask what I had done wrong
He said "it was perfect" SHE was reciting a poem and I had actualy stopped at the perfect time

They all thought I knew what I was doing and were amazed a Canadian knew Flamenco so well
You dont need to be Spanish to enjoy Flamenco ...But it sure would help
Lesson Learned
that is when I became a flamenco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 19:00:14

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

It would be a good learning experience actually, especially for those that may think more of themselves than they should, and if things go good for the shy guy who thinks he knows very little, it is a big confidence booster. In a juerga, you are allowed certain kinds of mistakes.

Ok, i understand what you mean. But it depends on who is jamming and the circumstances, with potito and tomatito jamming id be a little intimidated myself.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 19:04:30

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to c) 1 votes

I've had similar experiences.
Andalucians seem to be a lot less uptight than fellow students IMO.

cheers

Ron

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A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 19:45:21

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

Hats off to you, Dominic... you do come up with some good options for these polls! For me, it'd have to be "when you have played 'la cucaracha' and shouted 'ole!' at the end"... either that or "when you can play 'la feria' just like Juan martin".

But to be honest, I don't think I could even do either of those.

I can play a couple of soleas from the Graf Martinez book though... maybe you should've listed that as one of the options?

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 19:55:30

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Andalucians seem to be a lot less uptight than fellow students IMO

agree i had the same thing with ballet national, and they were passing the guitar and this was gerardo nunez second guitarist and david cerreduela and they were great.

really nice people

ohh, they were from madrid but u know what i mean ..

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2006 19:59:23

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

When they can play bulerias for a singer they never met before, in an informal juerga.

even tho this poll had a silly edge it was still half serious, thanks for your imput Ricardo, i think a lot of people would aggree with u there and not all these silly cliche that seem to go around and give people the idea that things are unacheivable.

quote:

Hats off to you, Dominic... you do come up with some good options for these polls!

Its my pleasure JBASHORUN, and thank u...i try my best, i like to think i put an answer in there for everybody

. Ill think about your graf martinez suggestion

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 7:06:06

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

give people the idea that things are unacheivable.

Well i never said that, ive been doing it myself for years so why would it be unacheivable?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 7:07:41

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 7:09:00

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

What i have been trying to say is that guitarists would be better off starting with learning basic song chord progressions and rhythm, so they could jump into a juerga, instead of first learning paco falsetas or other super advanced stuff.

Nothing wrong with paco, he is a deity for me but its very, very advanced stuff that could maybe wait until the foundation is there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 7:11:00

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

wow sonikete, u all over me like a cheap suit!!

(im kidding) i wasnt refering to u in particular. Its easy for u to say it doesnt put people off but u been playing 20years, but if u were a begginer and all you heard was things like, only gypsy can play flamenco or 20 years baile and cante etc. etc. maybe it may make the whole thing a little daunting.

I guess my point really is that flamenco is different things for different people. Theres no one way or one true flamenco, theres different styles levels and schools of thought just like any other artform.But for example Sonikete u tell everyone this that and the other and lots of what u say is great and cant argue with u, but also maybe bear in mind u are very strong willed with your opinion and dont seem to be very flexible with your views and come across like u want to convert everyone to your way, please im not having a go just explaining where im coming from.

I enjoy reading your posts, you have helped a lot of people here im sure all i saying is others r entitled to their own opinions too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 7:22:58

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ut also maybe bear in mind u are very strong willed with your opinion and dont seem to be very flexible with your views and come across like u want to convert everyone to your way, please im not having a go just explaining where im coming from.

Yes, i know its a bit of a flaw in my personality, but i dont see my point as the truth, its just the theory im currently defending and if someone teaches me something i didnt know, then im quite willing to revise my thinking.

Im sorry if you feel im a bit of a bully, its not my intention, but what im basically trying to say that its a lot more difficult to become paco, than to learn to play the chords required to jump into a juerga.

And a lot of people seem to spend an incredible amount of time trying to become paco instead of enjoying the basic core and develop from there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 7:28:52

Guest

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

no i dont think your a bully with your ideas at all, just enthusiastic which is great. Most of us realise that well never play like paco

(u have to be realistic) i aggree playing at juerga is a great way to develope as a guitarist.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 7:34:03

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

Good, cause i dont want to discourage people

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 7:40:29

David83

Posts: 28
Joined: Nov. 29 2006

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

When can someone truley say thay are a flamenco guitarist? -> When they can accompany cante and baile, and play solo too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 11:03:07

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

Yes thats what i was saying, but that doesnt seem to be a very popular opinion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 11:07:31

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to sonikete)

quote:

But it depends on who is jamming and the circumstances, with potito and tomatito jamming id be a little intimidated myself.

Anyone would be too, except Moraito and a few others, but you should still do it. Would you if the guitar got passed your way?

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 16:02:12

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-When can someone truley... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Anyone would be too, except Moraito and a few others, but you should still do it. Would you if the guitar got passed your way?

Sometimes you just have to jump

And ive listened to him enough to get at least some of the verses right if he sang something i recognized or something traditional. And WTF im just a guiri.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2006 16:09:29