Conde/Eliasson plans/technical drawings

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JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

Conde/Eliasson plans/technical drawings

Hi,

As my first guitar is nearing completion, I need to start thinking ahead about my second one. I would, ideally, like to make a replica of a Conde Hermanos blanca or a copy of one of Anders Eliasson's blancas.

Therefore, I'm looking for some plans/technical drawings to work from. I have checked LMII.com, and couldn't find any Conde plans. I wasn't really expecting to find any of Anders' plans online.

But if anyone knows where I can find accurate Conde plans, the info would be gratefully appreciated.

Alternatively, if Anders could somehow supply plans to one of his guitars- that would be more than generous. (obviously, I would be willing to pay for them!).

Gracias!

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 12 2006 19:32:48

Garyw1960

Posts: 91
Joined: Nov. 13 2005

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

James

I remember Anders mentioning his guitars were based on versions of a Barbero ..... the plans for that are available from the GAL site and take about 4 weeks to arrive.

Regards

Gary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 12 2006 19:41:49

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to Garyw1960)

quote:

I remember Anders mentioning his guitars were based on versions of a Barbero ..... the plans for that are available from the GAL site and take about 4 weeks to arrive.

Many thanks Gary. I think I've located the plan you mentioned here:

http://www.luth.org/plans/bp.htm#guitar

For anyone else who might be interested.

I will try and send Anders a PM to see if he deviates in any way from the plan.

In the mean time, if anyone can locate some Conde plans...

Cheers,

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 12 2006 20:01:55

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

JB,

There are no Conde plans available that I know of. I would recommend just sticking to one plan for now. Build another guitar off the plans you used for your first guitar and continue making guitars with that plan to become consistent in your work. It isn't until after you've build a few guitars off the same plan that you actually really learn about that guitar and get as close to the orignial as possible. If you build several guitars off of several plans you won't get an accurate assessment of each guitar.

Anders used to build off of a Barbero plan but he has made his own refinements and added his own ideas to the plan. The majority of Anders "plans" are in his head. Another thing to consider is that I'm sure Anders doesn't follow his or any other "plan" exactly. He lets the wood dictate to him how it needs to be worked. How thick or thin the braces need to be, etc.etc.

If you follow a plan exactly regardless of how stiff your top is, or without considering all the other variables, you'll get inconsistent results.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 12 2006 22:13:22

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

I would recommend just sticking to one plan for now. Build another guitar off the plans you used for your first guitar and continue making guitars with that plan to become consistent in your work.

Thanks for your advice, Tom. Unfortunately, I did not follow a specific plan for my first guitar. The guitar was built according to some roughly transcribed dimensions for standard "classical" guitars, but much of the decision making was done on the spot, and with guidance from my tutors (who know very little specifically about "Flamenco" guitars). Consequently, the guitar I am about to finish is not really a "blanca" and not really a "classical"... it has a shallower body than a classical, but the back and sides are maple. And it has a 2-piece neck and neck block (with dovetail joint) instead of the traditional Spanish method. We'll have to wait and see what happens with the bridge! but its a mix-and-match job. some of the dimensions were also changed to accommodate mistakes. Now that I have some experience with the techniques involved, I would like to make something according to plan. And preferably a plan of a proper Flamenco guitar. I think between the plan, myself, and my tutors, we can try and produce something that actually sounds good rather than just making a guitar for the sake of it.

I think maybe the basic "Barbero" plan is the way to go, and then make only adjustments that are absolutely neccessary to optimize the sound/tone.

But if anyone thinks otherwise, I'm always open to suggestions!

Cheers,

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 12 2006 22:49:08

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

JB,

If that's the case then go with either the Barbero or a Santos Hernandez. Both easily available and both are "Proven" plans. Many builders build off these plans because they work. After building one over and over again you get to know it well. Then you can start "experimenting" with different ideas to get what you want out of it. There's so many things you can do which makes the whole process fun as you begin to understand what does what and how to work certain things to get different results.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 13 2006 5:34:13

lukemoon

Posts: 60
Joined: Aug. 6 2006

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I bought my p

quote:

Anders Eliasson's

lans from roy courtnall.

http://www.guitarplans.co.uk/Santos%20Hernandez.htm

Use the Santos plans if you want a flamenco guitar - The guy virtually invented the flamenco guitar!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2006 20:24:35

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Thanks Lukemoon!

Although I'm still not quite sure if Anders uses the Barbero or Santos model, as he hasn't got back to me yet.

But I'll probably look at both plans and then decide between the two.

If anyone has views on which is better, then they are more than welcome to share them.

Gracias!

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2006 21:18:31

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Hi JBASHORUN

As you probably know i have built the two models and they are completely different in all aspects.

Basically it's impossible to say which one of the two mentioned designs is better as both builders (although different), have probably built the best flamenco guitars ever.

My second flamenco guitar sounds better than the first, yes, but is this because the Barbero design is better than the Santos? I don't think so. It's rather due to the fact that i have already gained knowledge and i paid much more attention to many details.

The Santos is more lightly built than the Barbero. The Barbero has a 660mm scale whereas the Santos has a 650 scale. Only this fact makes a big difference also in terms of playability.

The Santos 1933 model guitar (Courtnall plan) looks rather easy to build, but it is not that easy considering that an authentic Santos alike sound is to be achieved.

I think its necessary to build a couple of guitars of the same model in oder to get a bit more insight into the guitar as a whole and to understand better how the particular design works. It's best to make only small adjustments from one guitar to the next to better track, where the changes came from. Therefore it's also important to be familiar with the true sound of the original guitar otherwise you wont know whether or not your adjustments go into the right direction. Wood from the same tree will also help to get more consistant results. Therefore i think it's not that important which design you choose. Although its in interesting thing to build different designs, it's probably more effective to stay with only one design and consistantly try to improve it with every new guitar you build.

regards

Armando

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2006 14:18:28

lukemoon

Posts: 60
Joined: Aug. 6 2006

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I agree.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2006 15:47:09

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Hi there James! How about some pics of your guitar?

Cheers,
Cheston

_____________________________

Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2006 15:52:59

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to Skai)

quote:

Hi there James! How about some pics of your guitar?

Hi Cheston,

Good to see you still visit the foro these days.

I am reluctant to show you all pictures of my guitar for 2 reasons:

1. it is not quite finished, and...

2. the standard of luthiery is so high on the forum, what with people like Ramon displaying pictures of their "works of art", it makes my efforts seem inferior!

However, I think I will post some pictures soon. I'm just completing the binding this week, and then I need to turn my attention to the neck and fretboard.

Once I have the neck and fretboard ready I will post some pictures. Although, I haven't rigidly stuck to tradition (as a few of you know already), so I'm expecting a few raised eyebrows, and maybe even a few chuckles. But hey, its only my first guitar, right?!

By the way, thanks for your comments, Armando!

Cheers,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2006 16:30:51

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

I remember I never used to have any reservations posting my own recordings here!

I'm sure all you'll get are encouraging words. Hope to see them soon. For me, the closest I'll ever get to making a guitar was the one I made as a kid, with a tissue box and a cardboard tube.

I do drop by sometimes but I guess for a long time to come, classical guitar will take full precedence (though I'm still getting nowhere spectacular). My life consists of 60% National Service, 20% hanging out with friends, and 10% each for learning and teaching classical.

Hope all these changes after I'm out from NS in about 4 months.

Good luck in your luthiery then, you'll always get a thumbs-up from me.

Cheers,
Cheston

_____________________________

Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2006 22:11:13

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to Skai)

quote:

I remember I never used to have any reservations posting my own recordings here!

Cheston, thats because you play very well! For someone of your age, your talent is pretty impressive. I hope you'll continue to make uploads as you learn more stuff. Plus, I'm sure no-one would object to the odd bit of classical guitar being posted on the forum.

As for your "guitar" made out of a tissue box and cardboard tube... now why does that remind me the guitar I'm making at the moment?

One thing I've learned is that luthiery is almost like a philosophy or attitude, and you need a certain type of mentality to excell at it. Patience is one of the most important characteristics you need, along with attention to detail. I'm not sure I possess these attributes to the extent that I could do luthiery as a professional job. But I do think they have developed within me somewhat since I first started, which is some consolation.

Anyway, good luck with your military service... not long to go now! Hopefully you'll have more time to hang out with us afterwards.

Cheers,

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 23 2006 12:15:50

lukemoon

Posts: 60
Joined: Aug. 6 2006

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

JBASHORUN

Put up some photos of the guitar

it´s the whole point of these forums and the most interesting who cares about imperfections my one was full of them...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2006 13:25:28

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Conde/Eliasson plans/technical d... (in reply to lukemoon)

quote:

Put up some photos of the guitar it´s the whole point of these forums and the most interesting who cares about imperfections my one was full of them...

OK, I'm at college towards the end of this week. I'll take some photos of the guitar as it currently is (uncompleted). Although I insist on cleaning up some of the glue splodges first (I used coloured Araldite to plug the gaps in the binding). Expect a few rough shots on Friday evening or Saturday morning.

Cheers,

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 25 2006 18:48:36