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Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback?   You are logged in as Guest
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Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? 
Hola all,

Started in on the Super Blonde shellac (French polish) on the top. Did 2 'protection' coats, then did 3 more after the bridge process was complete. Sanded that today and did 3 light coats, again. Letting sit for 48 hours, then will sand smooth and start in again...

Okay...Here's my question:

I'm considering that, as a flamenco, we are WAY harder on our guitars than a classical player...

Also, as the top is far and away about the most important part, I chose FP, but am considering using this KTM-9 product, a water-based lacquer, with a harder finish, for the sides, bottom, neck, etc...

I've read a lot, and people say it is quite close in many aspects to FP, but more durable, easier and quicker (but a 2 week cure to polish), but I wonder if anyone out there has tried this?

I saw that Ramirez, even on the FL1, is now using this method, and to me, it makes sense. But there are those who believe FP is the ONLY way to go, so I'm seeking feedback from you guys.

Thanks again for all the support and comments!

R



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2006 2:01:33
 
Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
And the head....Softened the edges a bit, but after looking at the pic, I may go a bit more...

Comments?

(and the pegs are just loosely set in for a pic...)



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2006 2:03:09
 
mentrida

 

Posts: 55
Joined: Jun. 19 2004
 

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Ramon,

I'm no luthier so I can't give a proper reply on the finish, but my guitar has the lacker finish and I've been very thankful for it on many occassions. My heart has dropped to the pit of my stomach many a times when I've heard the THUD sound of the guitar hitting something. I truly think the finish has prevented many injuries. Of course, I always try to take care and none of the hits were of great force.

As far as your guitar, here is the greates complement I know to give. My wife (who often thinks I'm "Loco" with the many hours I practice, scream in frustration, and spend reading post in an attempt to learn) happened to see the photo of your guitar and walked up to say that it was "gorgeous" Now, she's never said that about MY guitar

It looks great and I like the way the edges look on the head just the way they are.

Good luck, Hope it really sounds great and thanks for all your posts.
SB
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2006 2:54:14
 
ykabban

 

Posts: 251
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
 

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Here's my idea of an elegant bevel. Recognize this famous head?
I prefer for only the headplate(not the underlying veneers) to have the bevel.
Yours looks pretty damn sweet though, keep it simple. A scalloped nut would look awesome with that headstock.

I love super blondes, in more ways than one. I would go for a complete french polish. Mi dos centavos....

What material makes up those peg tips?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2006 3:22:46
 
Garyw1960

 

Posts: 91
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
 

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
A luthier friend has a beautiful cedar faced, brazilian backed classical. The front looks like a war zone with dings and scratches. When he gets a spare couple of hours he will restore it to brand new as its french polished.

If Ramirez is using the lacquer on the backs and sides then it must be ok...he rarely, if ever, does anything without thorough experimentation. He would not use it if it affected the sound of the instrument.

This has been a superb reference series of articles, well done.

Regards

Gary
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2006 3:42:04
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Ramon, your best best to seek this advise would be on the MIMF website under the glues and finishes section. Even in their library. There's a lot of mixed reviews on this KTM stuff. Some like it and some do not.

Are you planning on building more guitars or is this a one time deal? if it's a one timer, go with FP. If you plan on building more, take your pic on the finish as you can use different ones on the others and see what you like best.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2006 4:48:18
 
Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Hola,

Wrote a big thanks to everyone for their help and input, earlier today, and my conncection went down when I tried to post, so naturally..... I lost all I wrote.

I went to the Luthier's website, and it seemed that all the KTM-9 feedback was quite good. It just seems to make sense to me to do it this way. I'm just not careful enough with a guitar - although FP seems easy to repair. Process seems about the same the '9, which is why it got good reviews on ease of repair.

Not decided, but leaning...

Tomas.....wow..! The tops on these ARE flexible! 2.0/2.1mm!! The Bearbero's are 3.0. Hoping this doesn't fold like a clam when I string it up!!!!!!!

Mentrida....Tell your wife..... thank you! lol...

Headed over tomorrow to continue...

R
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 11 2006 23:51:39
 
Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
She's getting close, que no?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 12 2006 3:10:57
 
Per Hallgren

 

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Hi Ramón,

Nice work with the guitar!

I have french polished more than 200 guitars and used KTM only once so maybe I am too biased to answer your question, but my opinion favours the french polish. I know (only too well...) that schellack has its draw backs but I am convinced that it has NO competitors sound vise. Further more, it is really easy to repair, i.e. repolish. Sure, I know that it is possible to repair KTM, nitro and possibly some other finishes, but no one is as easy as french polish. As a bonus the beauty of a well done french polish is fantastic.

Are you going to keep the guitar for yourself or is it for sale? If it is for yourself I would propose that you choose french polish, learn the technique and keep your guitar well polished through time. It is when the different finishes breaks down through wear or chemical processes (which not occurs with schellack) that the instrument is in danger.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 12 2006 11:58:45
Guest

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
I totally agree with what Per sais.

And welcome to the forum. It´s good with another fine builder here.

I guess you are:
http://home.swipnet.se/hallgrenguitars/

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 12 2006 12:47:44
 
Per Hallgren

 

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Yes, that's me. Unfortunately the english pages of my website is under reconstruction, but I guess that you, Anders, can understand the Swedish.

What I forgot to say in my last message is that no finish, no matter how hard it is, can protect the guitar from dangerous blows against an armrest or table for example. You just have to live with that the guitar is a fragile creature.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 12 2006 15:41:40
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Per Hallgren) 
Per. Anders is THE Anders that made my guitar.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 12 2006 15:44:51
 
bbeardb

 

Posts: 23
Joined: Jun. 1 2006
 

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
I've only built two, but I'd say if you're going to FP the top, you might as well do the whole thing. I'll think you'll feel better about it, more sense of accomplishment (not as if you don't have that already!) And it's not that hard to do anyway, looks great, and feels better to say you french polished it, rather than saying it's KTM 9. I don't know, just my thoughts.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 12 2006 19:29:31
 
DoctorX2k2

 

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Any update Ramon? I'm starting to miss seeing your creation ! I want to see it done and hear a sample in the download section
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2006 19:05:54
 
Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Decided on the KTM-9 finish for the neck, back, and sides. For me, it's just more practical, as I hope this will be a strong accompaniment/main use guitar.

I played with the stuff, found it was easy to 'touch up', is backwards-compatible with French (the neck was coming out VERY light, so I hit it with 3 coats of a darker shellac and then recovered with KTM. Worked perfect.)

I applied the KTM as I would shellac. Tried a brush...Not that great. Tried a foam brush - worse. The handrubbing seems the best, so I did it just like one does shellac. 3 coats, 24hrs, light sanding, 3 coats...... It's come out quite nice.

The top, is, of course, French'd. The color match is quite close, but won't be fully known until I polish.

It's a loooong process, since I also have to work. I have one more shellac/alcohol/oil coat (3 applications in one visit), and then it's a cure for a week or 10 days.

Soooooo...Bob says I'll be stringing up soon.....

YIKES!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 27 2006 14:19:24

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
So Ramon... what happened? is the guitar complete? how does she sound?

Jb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 4 2006 13:15:44
 
Ramón

Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca

RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón) 
Final rubout today, set the head and saddle nuts, action, etc....

Final chapter should be posted by tomorrow...'Flamenco Guitar - FINISHED'

Soon...The Acid Test....or in my case, The Jackacid Test!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 5 2006 14:22:29
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