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RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias   You are logged in as Guest
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Ricardo

Posts: 12573
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Kate

Kate, the thing you are missing is that it is legal to use EXCERPTS from published works of music for educational purpose. Falsetas a perfect for this purpose. Conrad is not transcribing COMPLETE works or pieces, only certain falsetas. If he wanted to teach and make money from his note for note version of Parrilla's rather short falseta, it is perfectly legal without anyone's permission, both to write it down or record it, and even use it in a teaching book as such. Two falsetas from the same piece, might be getting into the grey area of legality.

Making a book of complete transcriptions, or a complete piece of music is different. I think it is determined by time, but I can't remember the limit. 2 minutes perhaps is allowed unless the complete work is that length.

Anyway in regards to the printed scores of copywrited flamenco, they probably have a pianist sketch out the general idea of a piece for copywrite purpose. PDL's early material was infacted printed this way. It was a joke and insult to guitar players, only a way to collect royalties for the publisher. A cante album most likely will not have the falseta sketched out, but it would be interesting to see an actuall score from say Dieguito's latest album as done for copywrite.

One more thing, F the publishers.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2006 22:28:10
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Ricardo

If tabs would be illegal, whats up with lyrics? Its the same. If tabs are illegal, lyrics are illegal, too.

for example its not illegal to build merceds benz cars at home not 100% as the original. If you donate them to friends or somebody else, its not illegal, too. Its the same with the tabs. It starts to get illegal if you take money for the tabs and dont pay GEMA or such a thing. I cant understand this new illegality of tabs. They are all crazy in the last time I think.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 19 2006 23:40:17
 
bahen

Posts: 268
Joined: Mar. 4 2006
 

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Conrad

quote:

Artists make music.

Artists earn a living.

Music is a business.

You cannot walk into a bread shop and hand out the baker's bread on his behalf in the spirit of sharing. It's not your's to share.


Don't share the bread, but share the knowledge behind making bread. It's greedy to monopolise means. That's what writing and sharing tablature is about. As for the opinion that music is a business - well, I really think this has lost sight of 'music as emotion'. Again, you cannot put dollars on every darn thing there is: it's frustrating. When transcribers like Conrad do what they do, they are fighting back against the publishing industry's growing monopoly on music and the means thereof. Ricardo puts it well, F the publishers.

quote:

And of course its a business, ask any professional artist. You make it sound as if the artist is a greedy capitalist , exploiting the public merely by expecting payment for his work, for hours of practice and dedication to their art. I think your way of thinking is sad and twisted. I fight on the artist's side.


Kate, please don't make it sound as if this is the opinion of all artists. Take Tomas Jimenez on this forum - his recordings are incredible, and I would think his following to be wide. I for one cannot stop looping his mp3s. What's admirable about Tomas is that he is not miserly about sharing his knowledge. I agree with you, however, that there are many artists that do like to collect their pennies from those who would even look at them pluck strings - there's little to say to these persons other than that they have lost sight of why and how flamenco, as a culture, came into existence.

Respectfully,

bahen
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2006 6:29:53
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Kate, the thing you are missing is that it is legal to use EXCERPTS from published works of music for educational purpose.
Ricardo


You're right I was refering to compositions not excerpts. The limit is quite small though before you hit those grey areas. You're also right about the piano player we plead guilty.

Not sure I feel the same about publishers, you dont half feel grateful when the royalties come in, get collected and passed out and although they are far and few between active publishers who really work the catalogue are a god send and can get you lots of work.

I'm not a fan of SGAE who dont seem to know the meaning of the words 'pay out'. We considered advising Spanish artists to sign up with PRS but were told that all that would happen was PRS would pay SGAE if the artist were resident in Spain, both companies would take a percentage and no doubt SGAE would still sit on the money. We're still waiting for royalties from a Sony compilation which did a bizarre techno style version of one of Emilio's compositions about three years back. One of those Chamboa albums which sold very well. Anyway if we had a publisher to chase up Sony and collect from the SGAE he would have got at least something by now. It's tough and if I were a recording artist I'd like a publisher fighting my corner.

Kate

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Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2006 9:06:14
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to bahen

quote:

I agree with you, however, that there are many artists that do like to collect their pennies from those who would even look at them pluck strings


I dont recall saying this and I know of no-one like this.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bahen
there's little to say to these persons other than that they have lost sight of why and how flamenco, as a culture, came into existence.


Not sure I follow this. Can it be you refer to the time when Gypsies were not allowed to own land or property. When they were forced to run and hide as there was a price on their heads. When whole communities were taken from their homes and made to work on the cortijos for a pittance, eating only garbazos every day for twenty years. When five year olds went door to door selling thimbles of perfume to help the family survive. When 13 year olds worked in factories paid a dollar a day for a forty hour week. Ooops that still goes on, my mistake.

Bahen we should agree to disagree as we are not getting anywhere with this. We have different points of view, different experiences and I do not have the will to keep defending my position. The majority of flamenco guitarists in Andalucia struggle to make a living, get paid little and exploited a lot. You cannot feed a family on duende.

And I have no problem with what Conrad is doing. Its a great resource.
Basta ya,
Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2006 11:19:39
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

If tabs would be illegal, whats up with lyrics? Its the same. If tabs are illegal, lyrics are illegal, too.




This thing called copyright, has the only purpose to ensure that the one who ownes it, is the only one who has the license to make money of it. That's the reason why things, which dont make you earn money are not secured by copyright, or even if, nobody cares to prosecute.

Regarding music business: If you make business with music, its the same business as with everything. As a business its similar to all other business.

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 20 2006 12:16:48
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12573
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to XXX

http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/birthday.asp
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 21 2006 4:54:12
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Ricardo

Another publishing story

http://www.3rdearmusic.com/forum/mbube2.html

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2006 9:57:19
 
Paleto

Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Ricardo

This thread has benefitted from a lot of good points.

I think there are lots of things to consider on both sides of the issue.

If anyone wants to inform themselves on these kinds of questions, an excellent place to read great information is the following book:

This Business of Music, by M. William Krasilovsky and Sydney Shemel, Billboard Books, ISBN 0-8230-7728-4

It was recommended to me by very knowledgeable recording studio owner.

I hope you are all well,

Anthony
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 1 2006 15:33:41
 
kb

 

Posts: 1
Joined: Jun. 4 2006
 

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Conrad

quote:

I strongly doubt that any of this material will ever be published.


Actually, official versions of Viejin’s transcriptions have been published. Unfortunately, right now they are only for sale in Japan (Japanese/Spanish language editions). I know that the English/Spanish versions will be available soon but I don’t know the exact date. If anyone’s interested, you can preview them here:

http://lavidaacompas.com/e/transcriptions/

-kb
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 4 2006 13:01:01
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 10 2006 9:17:59
 
sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Ricardo

I wonder when air is going to be privatized? I mean all that free air and noone making a profit out of it, what an incredible waste....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 11 2006 0:04:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12573
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to sonikete

quote:

I wonder when air is going to be privatized?


When it runs out or gets too dirty. There are lots of anti smoking laws around nowadays as they start to protect the precious stuff. Remember Spaceballs? Perri-air in a can you can sniff.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 11 2006 5:14:32
 
duende

Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Ricardo

just L.U.V!! that movie just love it.

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 11 2006 5:30:17
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 11 2006 5:40:12
 
sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: New Tab - El Viejin bulerias (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

When it runs out or gets too dirty.


Yeah, silly me, they probably already have a plan for that..

Its a brave new world isnt it?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 11 2006 17:51:30
 
joevidetto

 

Posts: 81
Joined: Jun. 15 2013
 

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