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Posts: 2895
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
Why do I crumble when my guitar is a...
Hi folks, I've noticed this recently in dance class. I can work out what's going on.
I feel like im playing the best ive ever played but the louder i go with the amp the more i seem to lose track of my technique and my confidence.
perhaps its due to the sound in the class? the cacophony of feet. amp levels not set up right?
or maybe this is a downside to muted practice? suddenly being able to hear myself LOUD is a mental shock. Maybe im subconciously scared my errors will be exposed?
Anyone notice any of this kind of stuff when playing for dance?
I've also suffered from some ear issues since I used to play in class. maybe related to that.
I find i fight the whole class with the amp. too much bass. then too trebly can seem to find whats right.
When the teacher does a solo and I play it feels normal again so maybe this is just down to the fact that when it gets loud, guitar and footwork it all falls apart.
Posts: 15872
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Stu)
psychological. Singers with mic same thing. It is good to get used to it as "normal". It is a big reason why people can't ever get used to a loud quaking piezo. Took me a long time. We are suddenly exposed to a more "objective" version of ourselves and it is a scary thing. Funniest for me is gigs were guests ask to use my mic for announcement and suddenly they become like a timid mouse when they hear their own voice. I have to crank and crank and crank the volume so they can say "hello everybody....we need to move over here to do the raffle" or whatever. It is quite universal. PDL had to smoke weed before every concert. Similar is "red light syndrome" where you play just fine live, but then the record light goes on and it is "wait....what am I doing here???".
Posts: 2895
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Ricardo)
Thanks Ricardo,
Yeah this feels right, but I've played amped for many years, why is it worse now? perhaps due to a break? but maybe cos I feel I'm a better player, is my ego exposed more?
Anyways, its annoying. I play all week and feel like vicente amigo, then class comes and by the end of class I feel awful! hahah
If only i had the freedom to go to class every day!
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Stu)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stu
Thanks Ricardo,
Yeah this feels right, but I've played amped for many years, why is it worse now? perhaps due to a break? but maybe cos I feel I'm a better player, is my ego exposed more?
Anyways, its annoying. I play all week and feel like vicente amigo, then class comes and by the end of class I feel awful! hahah
If only i had the freedom to go to class every day!
Maybe it's precisely because you're getting better. If you look at the process of playing as being a highly complex feedback loop (or multiple loops acting in concert) you're now more sensitive and fine tuned in your response to the fed back stimulus. Amplifying is a big change to one of the parameters and you're less able to "power through" because you've trained yourself to be more reactive. So, maybe it's not quite the same as "red light syndrome" but it is something that you'll adjust to as you get more used to it. Just a thought.
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Stu)
Stu, maybe it is simply a bad sounding room/amp and worse when students are all dancing. It is a needed skill to be ok playing with a bad sound e.g. on stage with bad monitors/ stage sound, or room with a bad sound for a dance class. Being able to not have a bad sound affect your technique/how hard you're playing etc.. Maybe you just need to give yourself time to get used to it, if you've only been playing at home for a while?
Posts: 2017
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Stu)
IMO your sound is everything. If you don't like it, it's difficult to play your best. I generally just play at home, but did a gig last month. To prepare, I played with a mike through an amp in practice sessions leading up to the gig. I wanted to be comfortable with my guitar being loud since it had been a while since I played out.
Of course, at the gig, the sound man was unable to give me a sound on stage that I could hear well over the other players. He said it sounded great in the room :-) It rather sucked for me though. I got through it, and didn't play badly, but I didn't enjoy it. I think you have to dial in your gear like you do your playing. Otherwise, it's a crap shoot as to if you'll be happy with your sound. And once you have to depend on sound techs, it adds uncertainty.
Posts: 2895
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to TeoFlamenco2)
Yeah id love to. Only time i really can play is in the eve when the kids are asleep.. so amp isn't really possibly.
Plus my downstairs neighbour angrily knocked on my door at 21:30 a few nights ago. Cos "its too late for guitar!!!"..I was practicing with a muted guitar!
Posts: 2895
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to rombsix)
Using a bartlett mic. Attached to sound hole. Sounds amazing through my acoustic amp... but i just plug into the PA system in the dance studio. Big old speakers... can't recall the brand and model
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Stu)
For many years, I played with microphones, pickups and amplifiers, cranking up the sound, then moved into an apartment and the neighbors tried to kill me. (ok, eviction but there were threats!). Now it's all acoustic, and I am quite used to the sound. When I record something, I use a Yeti mic and good headphones. Likely the PA system's big old speakers are no good... and only ear plugs would help! . If I'm out, I'm happy with a Fender Acoustasonic and Shure mic.
_____________________________
"The main secret about singing ain't so much to have other folks listen to as it is to pick up your own spirits." -Woody Guthrie [and playing guitar!]
Posts: 1963
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Mark2)
I've never met a sound technician who could get even close to the tone I liked. Normally if you're playing at a concert venue you just show up with a guitar and they take care of the rest. After many bad experiences I got fed up and started bringing my own amp and told them to mic that. No more bad experiences, but also superb monitoring achieved :D
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Stu)
I was once warming up with the sponge in and a guy in the next tent complained that I was interrupting the accordion class he was giving. We’re just annoying.
The trouble with dance classes is that the students aren’t locked in with each other, because they’re doing something new that they haven’t got the hang of. So you can’t lock in with them and there’s no groove. You end up trying to sync with the sound of rain on a tin roof. It’s miserable. That’s why it’s so much better with the teacher!
I once asked a senior player why he used an EQ pedal just to play for dance classes. He smiled knowingly and replied that you can’t play without a good sound. That’s true, and it’s the reason why gigs with shabby sound are such downers (as Mark said).
So maybe put an EQ pedal between the Bartlett and the local PA.
Posts: 2017
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)
That is what I should have done. Used a small amp for a stage monitor and have them take a direct out or just mike it. I have had good luck in the past with sound techs and also bad luck. Bigger the venue, usually the better the sound person. Usually in a theatre you get a good sound. Large clubs and outdoor gigs are tougher.
quote:
ORIGINAL: xirdneH_imiJ
I've never met a sound technician who could get even close to the tone I liked. Normally if you're playing at a concert venue you just show up with a guitar and they take care of the rest. After many bad experiences I got fed up and started bringing my own amp and told them to mic that. No more bad experiences, but also superb monitoring achieved :D
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Stu)
Hi Stu Did you find a solution to improve your sound?
I also use a barlett mic. I am considering getting something to deal with occasional feedback problems and improve the sound through a PA.
Anyone tried this or similar? LR Baggs para acoustic DI. It's got a notch filter and phase inversion for feedback and EQ. Says it's good for steel and nylon string guitars.
Posts: 2895
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to orsonw)
Oh Hi Orson,
and thanks guys for your replies. I must've got distracted and not realised there had been more responses.
I think I've found, if not a solution, then a place where i dont feel like im losing the plot.
I feel its a combo of being back into the swing of things (confidence) and also the dancers footwork improving (less racket)!
work in progress though. working ona tangos whihc ive never really like that much., but im really beginning to enjoy it and understand it. im finding the groove whihc i never really cared to look for before as it was a boring old 4/4. but i think i was wrong about it.
RE: Why do I crumble when my guitar ... (in reply to Stu)
quote:
yeah might look into this. maybe the thing orson just shared. i could do with buying some new kit!
The LR Baggs DI is an industry standard, cost about £220. The anti-feedback and acoustic specific features seem worth it to me. Compared to a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal, also industry standard but for electric, cost about £100.
Printable Version
. If I'm out, I'm happy with a Fender Acoustasonic and Shure mic. 
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