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Posts: 1705
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
I did a re-fret job...
Someone brought a factory-made guitar to me for a re-fret job, which I did. The old frets were flat on top and had grooves in them that caused buzzing. I also made a new nut and a new saddle. I think the old nut was plastic. I actually thought the guitar sounded much better afterwards. A few weeks later the customer told me that some notes were too weak. I couldn't really imagine how that could be related to my re-fretting but I asked him to bring it back and he did and played it for me to show me. He thought the notes on the first five frets or so of the first string were too weak and that it had something to do with the re-fretting. I wouldn't have noticed if he hadn't told me. I told him that was unlikely and not something I could adjust. I suggested turning the string around; that might help.
It's hard to tell if it's just a placebo effect, given the guitar will feel a little different to the player. New fret height, new strings, set up, fret material, a change to bone etc.
A player has to accept that any change from one scenario to another can potentially effect how the guitar feels and sounds. If there was an obvious fault per se, or a dodgy string, you'd hear it yourself.
All you can do sometimes is ensure the guitar sounds ok to you. It's difficult to account for what the player hears before and after.
For the purpose of offering an angle that hasn't been discussed, one thing that can potentially come in to play, is whether or not you fill the voids under the frets with superglue etc.
Other than that, a veneer under the nut or saddle is about the only thing you can try to see if it improves anything.
Ethan, there are two types clientes. This type will never be happy and will always be looking for faults in your work. What he is suggesting is ridiculous. I am sorry that we can’t always identify these guys when they walk in.
Does this mean strings have a front end and a back end and we’ve not realized this, yet?
Yep. And you can get left-handed wound strings where the winding is reversed.
Is this because whirl pools counter spin clockwise or clockwise depending on which hemisphere you’re in? Lefty strings below the equator and righty strings above?
— An old friend on mine in San Francisco who his a lute maker and guitar building teacher share a funny story as a euphemism for kooky clients. The first plucked string instrument I built slighty before I made my first guitar was a Renaissance vihuela. My lute maker friend helped me understand how to make it. After it was strung up I took it to a local lutenist to get feedback on it. I became so involved in the lute community in San Francisco that I didn’t go to a flamenco event or bar night for six months. Well the criticism from the lutenist was mild, he said you did well for your first try an early instrument. Then he launched into a long monologue about what lute makers in his opinion do wrong.
The most stupid thing he said was that the tiny ball at the end of the peg grip on certain pegs could be wrong. The little ball on the peg grip is called a ‘pip’, he said if the pip on the peg is not attached correctly then the lute will not vibrate properly. The euphemism for a customer in need of too much hand holding and psychological counseling in your shop is a guy who can’t get over his pip hang up. Eventually I started back at flamenco events and they asked me where I’d been. I said at Pippy’s house.
Pip pip, Cheerio
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Oh Ethan… you missed that perfect sales opertinity, should have told him to play one of your guitars for a moment, then suggest his guitar was junk and it was time to move up 💰
Like Stephan says, I too can see these guys coming too… some just want to talk, like the sound of their voice, I just listen and nod. I walk away from the never be happy type, on my aviation maintebce world the first thing they do is bitch about how bad their last three airplane mechanics were…
It takes all kinds to keep this world spinning, Fuc if I have any answers.
HR
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
RE: I did a re-fret job... (in reply to estebanana)
Say are those new flamenco pips or OG. Now wait I minute, arnt those classical pips, I can hear their sustain from here…
HR
_____________________________
I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy, doesn't have to be fast, should have some meat on the bones, can be raw or well done, as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
Ethan, there are two types clientes. This type will never be happy and will always be looking for faults in your work. What he is suggesting is ridiculous. I am sorry that we can’t always identify these guys when they walk in.
I love your response, John. At least I got a bunch of money from him.
Posts: 1705
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
RE: I did a re-fret job... (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
Is this because whirl pools counter spin clockwise or clockwise depending on which hemisphere you’re in? Lefty strings below the equator and righty strings above?
Hmm, maybe I should tell him to move to South America?
Posts: 1705
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA
RE: I did a re-fret job... (in reply to ernandez R)
quote:
Oh Ethan… you missed that perfect sales opertinity, should have told him to play one of your guitars for a moment, then suggest his guitar was junk and it was time to move up 💰
Actually, I did think his guitar was junk. I started to tell him, but then thought better of it. After the re-fret, I still can't play it well, but somehow it suits his technique and he sounds pretty good on it. I can't figure it out.
He thought the notes on the first five frets or so of the first string were too weak and that it had something to do with the re-fretting.
Tell him to play THOSE notes with more balls. There are certain people that (like I say in that tuning video I loaded years ago), that play ANY GUITAR, and think it is defective, when they are are doing something to make that happen. Like tune with a tuner, then proceed to play OUT OF TUNE.
I can make any decent guitar sound like junk, or junky guitar sound beautiful. It is a very touchy instrument in general.
and about the "talkers" with their opinions. Yes, Richard Feynman said the easiest people to trick or convince of wrong ideas, is ourselves. Basically EVERY subject has these people that have developed notions that often have nuance and they could care less about their bias. I like to point out the counter examples all the time, and people think I am a contrarian. I tell them "no I am not!!!".
He thought the notes on the first five frets or so of the first string were too weak and that it had something to do with the re-fretting.
Tell him to play THOSE notes with more balls. There are certain people that (like I say in that tuning video I loaded years ago), that play ANY GUITAR, and think it is defective, when they are are doing something to make that happen. Like tune with a tuner, then proceed to play OUT OF TUNE.
I can make any decent guitar sound like junk, or junky guitar sound beautiful. It is a very touchy instrument in general.
and about the "talkers" with their opinions. Yes, Richard Feynman said the easiest people to trick or convince of wrong ideas, is ourselves. Basically EVERY subject has these people that have developed notions that often have nuance and they could care less about their bias. I like to point out the counter examples all the time, and people think I am a contrarian. I tell them "no I am not!!!".
You’re not a contrarian at all. In absolutely no sense of the word are you a contrarian.
maybe he needed to use different fretting strength after the refret? i can imagine these changes can throw your calibration out of whack. i remember when I switched to a handmade guitar I felt like lots of notes were too sharp. when I asked the luthier and played in front of him, he said I was bending the string... 😂 so basically i was used to pressing way too hard into the string because my first guitars were built like tanks and had astronomical action + string tension
maybe he needed to use different fretting strength after the refret? i can imagine these changes can throw your calibration out of whack. i remember when I switched to a handmade guitar I felt like lots of notes were too sharp. when I asked the luthier and played in front of him, he said I was bending the string... 😂 so basically i was used to pressing way too hard into the string because my first guitars were built like tanks and had astronomical action + string tension
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