Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





19th century spirit guitar   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1] 2 3    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

19th century spirit guitar 

Starting another I built it by the seat of my pants thread.
I designed this model a few years ago to be a ‘made in the spirit of Sevilla’ in the 1850’s. It’s not a copy of anything in particular, but is a compendium of features and techniques that would have been used in the carpentry district of Sevilla or any Andalusian city at the time.

640 scale and a spruce top that’s wide grained, but quite old already and very stiff.

Photo 1 is a spirit model from 2021. Below the one I’m building now.








Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2023 2:53:33
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

The top came from the back of a Japanese tansu ( chest of drawers) the front was used for backs and sides 5 years ago, but I saved the spruce panels from the back of the tansu carcass to contemplate using the wood for a top on an old style guitar, and here we are.

The top is three pieces glued together, with a wing on either side of the lower bout. The color of the refraction of light off one of the wings betrays the fact that the rest of the seams are more of less camouflaged by judicious joinery. You can see in the blue circle a straight line with hard contrast. Well I was going to saw that off and re join a new better matched piece, but before I did that I posted the photo to my Instagram. Several of my seasoned guitar maker buddies said don’t touch it because character in guitar making is becoming a rare sight. The consensus was unanimous, people I’ve known for decades said don’t fuss with it, carry on. So I went with it.

It’s going to be a glaring hard contrast line in the final guitar and that may or may not be in the spirit of an Andalusian guitar made for a non Senorito guitarist in 1850’s Cadiz, but I’m doing it anyway. Maybe a ghost will show up.

The huge patch at the top on the inside of the top probably isn’t a period solution strengthening that area, but this is the only part where I didn’t go with a 19th century patch under the fingerboard. The fingerboard will bear too much on the center panel of the top and push it down. Better to back the joints than be sorry I’m ten years because of some joint failure. Besides I’ll splash it with black tea and dull down that Engelmann white.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2023 3:11:10
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

John Singer Sargent, El Jaleo, 1882, oil on canvas, 232 x 348 cm (Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum, Boston)

The guitar I’m making is in the spirit of the ones hanging on the wall in El Jaleo


My guitars in this style are not for playing contemporary flamenco, but more likely Tarrega and others from that time


Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2023 3:14:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14231
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

That is pretty cool that you are using art guitars as inspiration. Maybe you can try this one next?



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2023 15:15:14
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

That looks more likely an art saxophone.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 27 2023 18:51:19
 
Fawkes

 

Posts: 95
Joined: Feb. 11 2015
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

Strings and a tornavoz and made of wood, come on now.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2023 0:48:55
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

I don’t believe in the tornavoz

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2023 4:15:55
 
Brendan

Posts: 320
Joined: Oct. 30 2010
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

That painting is all the excuse I need to re-post one of my favourite articles:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F_mGbBZd8ENcdSuqjYg_cGbfd_r5X5FT/view?usp=drivesdk

_____________________________

https://sites.google.com/site/obscureflamencology/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2023 11:24:44
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

Fantastic essay, the author is so polite in how she refutes the assumptions of previous writers. I think this painting hits on the fact that Sergeant was a true aficionado, and I’ve always thought this picture is quite true to 19th century flamenco as a daring foreign aficionado would have seen it in a fairly hardcore venue.

Please bring forth anymore gems on this subject you have archived.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2023 13:22:04
 
Brendan

Posts: 320
Joined: Oct. 30 2010
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

There’s nothing else in my haphazard collection to match it, though some items are remarkable for other reasons https://sites.google.com/site/obscureflamencology/

I had a look to see what else she’s written. Solid art scholarship by the look of it but nothing else about flamenco and no further elegant takedowns of hilariously spurious expertise.

_____________________________

https://sites.google.com/site/obscureflamencology/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2023 11:26:36
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3437
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to Brendan

Great essay by Nancy Heller. Many thanks for posting it. John singer Sargent's El Jaleo is iconic, and I remember thinking long ago how interesting it was, even before I knew much about flamenco. I like the research Heller did in order to set other commentators straight on just what is and is not in the painting. But she also criticizes Sargent (gently) for the dancer's silk or satin dress, which would have been far too expensive for a gitana to wear in those days. Again, great essay.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2023 20:12:29
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14231
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Fantastic essay, the author is so polite in how she refutes the assumptions of previous writers. I think this painting hits on the fact that Sergeant was a true aficionado, and I’ve always thought this picture is quite true to 19th century flamenco as a daring foreign aficionado would have seen it in a fairly hardcore venue.

Please bring forth anymore gems on this subject you have archived.


If I may put forth some thoughts on the painting, and the observations of the author linked above.

First, it is echoed again the thing about gitanos being all the same class of individual, and negates that the stewards of flamenco music often had successful work, and integration, even some were bullfighter celebrities. So I am not keen on the “flamenco as a form evolved in the caves” type of thing. But it is so common it is not a big deal. All of her observations are right on about what is in the painting but she misses out on few opportunities to point out details, which I would like to add now.

Castañuelas: Correct she does not have them, and probably shouldn’t (Carmen Amaya used them in Siguiriyas etc., but it was considered unusual even then). But the proof is beyond the painting itself. I have the book that shows dozens of sketches as studies for this work that show the hands, palms empty. He used the same exact dancer and pose several times so, he was not trying to paint a literal scene from memory (in a sense, yes he is inventing things in the picture, as real as it looks). Likely her left hand is doing pitos (snapping) like the seated girl. The other hand is not grabbing the skirt (as the author claims) put is palm open, wrist pushing against hip. All the sketches show this.

Jaleo: This word has several meanings related to flamenco, and the issue is which one of these did HE intend. There is a clue on the wall on the back. “Ole” is written deliberately. This means “Jaleo” is referring, in his mind, not to a song form, but to the literal shouting out loud. This is done in any palo at any time (ideally in compas on the 12, or downbeat feeling), but the painting also shows activity that implies one of the other meanings of the word, which is the music that is performed in the Juerga or Fin de Fiesta. This music is typically, bulerias, OR tangos, etc., ie, up tempo forms. The posture of the palmeros is of this type of rhythm, not a solea or siguiriya, or even a fandango. Specifically the man on left, and girl on right are on the beat, and the man on the right in the middle, is doing the contratiempo.

I have seen the label “Jaleo” used for both Buleria and Tangos, so, a synonym for “juerga or fin de fiesta”. In American English we can think of the word applying to music that is played at an “after party”. A non-flamenco example would be Mozart and his opera friends post concert shin digs in the Amadeus movie. I feel the setting of the painting is intended this as well, rather than a tablao or theatre show. So for me, these two meanings apply to the painting (juerga and shouts of encouragement that goes with it). The other meaning is the song form. Castro Buendia has an interesting paper on the subject and relationship to the Soleá. However and ignored aspect is the Extremeño melody connotation of the word, and is how today working pros apply the term. The melody also comes with rhythmic baggage (does not have to), and we addressed this specifically in the cante accompaniment thread with examples of Jaleo accompaniment. I don’t think the painting needs that extra meaning, but it can in theory apply to what might be sung or played (Buleria Extrameños specifically, and the guitarists give a clue there, but could be coincidental of course).

For the record… the melody on Norman’s site called “Jerez Anonymous” is the specific one we associate “Jaleo” with today. There was a thread about a book that catalogues the various melodies of Extremadura for a more complete picture. I have to say, the idea that the “jaleo” as a song form (Buendia focuses on Jiliana, as female and Jaleo as male in terms of dance of the same music) pre-dating Solea makes no sense to my musical brain. As we see the enormous amounts of cante derivatives of Solea family, Jaleo fits as a subset of the family…not a precursor ancestor. IMO of course, it is just not logical. Again, historians are more concerned about the word itself and its appearance in print since music score is not in print to clarify. Printed music implies different music using the same titles (and is a waste of space in much of Buendia’s work IMO, yet he takes it as evidence the cantes likely did not actually exist yet, at least as we now think of them).

Guitarists: even though his guitars kind of suck interms of realism, I also have sketches of other guitar players of his, and it is obvious he plays guitar himself, and could very well be representing chords he actually knew were being played in the moment. One sketch shows two players using an E major tried, and in this painting we discuss, they are playing a high position C9 and C13 respectively. That pinky reach of the player on the left is the same type of voicing Tomatito uses in a buleria falseta in Encuentro. PDL uses it as well. The high position implies they are probably using capo at 4ish, though it is not clearly visible. Otherwise an absolute pitch chord of E9, and E13 could be in play, but I doubt it. Both players are using open handed abanico. The chord would be the correct harmony for Buleria Extremeños first line of verse (probably coincidence). I know it is not the cambio chord because the dancer is not doing the typical remate for that part of the letra. The capo 4 implies a high tessitura for the singer, which leads us to his head position.

Singer: There are two modes of vocalizing. Opera singers drop the larynx and tilt forward as pitches rise, and this is visible in the actual neck of males where the adams apple protrudes as pitches rise. Many pop and rock singers use their speaking voice to sing, and this means the larynx bobs up or down based on pitches just like speech patterns. For high pitches the larynx moves uncomfortable high and to compensate, these singers noticeably lift the chin. Lemmy of Motörhead, Brian Adams, Ariana Grande, are obvious examples. Steve Perry tilts his head sideways to make room, as an alternative. To me, the guy in the picture is demonstrating this exactly, and the high chord position reinforces this possibility (4 por medio). Also the high pitch of the melody is on the first line of verse (the others fall to tonic usually). Today many flamenco singers use lower titled larynx so you don’t see that action.

Last observation is the chair. The guy has a guitar in the lap next to the chair. I suspect the dancer might have been using the guitar, and handed it that guy who was eating an orange, and he put it down so she could dance a patada por Bulería. Of course, that is speculation but makes sense.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 29 2023 20:57:19
 
Brendan

Posts: 320
Joined: Oct. 30 2010
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to Brendan

I was wrong, Google Scholar let me down. Prof Heller has written more on flamenco. She contributed a short piece to Flamenco on the Global Stage (2015). Here is the first page:



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://sites.google.com/site/obscureflamencology/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2023 0:04:10
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

The real question here Ricardo is about the cejilla.

Did they use the pencil with rubber bands cejilla of the Franco years, or had that not been invented yet?

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2023 5:57:42
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14231
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

The real question here Ricardo is about the cejilla.

Did they use the pencil with rubber bands cejilla of the Franco years, or had that not been invented yet?


I know you are joking and we talked about it:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=332950&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=cejilla%2Cfirst&tmode=&smode=&s=#333029

However, since then, I found a reference on paper to “capo traste”, as in “adjust it to the singer’s range”, in some dang old vihuela book that had both singing and accompaniments. (EDIT, never mind, I realize it was some modern classical guitarist suggestion to use a capo to mimic the likely Vihuela pitch).

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2023 12:06:43
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to Ricardo

I know which vihuela book you’re referencing- Juan Bermudo published in Osuna in 1550?
Or something else?

Because they had the capo thing covered in the 16th century.

They also built instruments to different scale lengths, but with close pitch ranges to cover different vocal ranges. They had D, F, G and A vihuelas, and also cejillas, for those folks with only one axe. 😂

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 30 2023 13:02:15
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

Here we go-

Small guitar, big vrooooooom ~

I don’t really need to say too much to sell these.



_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2023 1:49:23
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14231
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I know which vihuela book you’re referencing- Juan Bermudo published in Osuna in 1550?
Or something else?

Because they had the capo thing covered in the 16th century.

They also built instruments to different scale lengths, but with close pitch ranges to cover different vocal ranges. They had D, F, G and A vihuelas, and also cejillas, for those folks with only one axe. 😂


yes it would make sense. However, the thing I linked to that Kitarist found, implies 17th century is when it appears. I am surprised at the use of the common key of G minor by the Vihuelists, which is comparatively rare in guitar repertoire, even flamenco (por abajo without tuning down to D). Perhaps that comes from the mentality of key signatures, which were not standardized, so those guys were thinking one flat, and oh, here is another (Eb) every once in a while. Of course the Vihuela with the F# makes for some lovely D chords.

That little guitar sounds great…I think the big plantillas add too much bass so these little guys cut through, but just a guess. Maybe it is the salted and tuned brace?

How much for that thing? And why make sides deeper??

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2023 12:35:39
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

Before I forget, the 1555 publication of On Playing the Vihuela ~ De Taner Vihuela

https://lutesocietyofamerica.org/journal/journal-1995-vol-xxviii-journal-1996-vol-xxix/

I tested the link to download the PDF it’s good.

Unfortunately I have a copy of this book published by the Lute Society of America, but I had to leave the majority of my library in California and it wasn’t feasible to bring it along. My library is still marooned somewhere in the Santa Cruz mountains in a deceased sculptor’s studio.

But Ricardo you’ll love this book of 16th century theory.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2023 13:41:43
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

The one in the video was bought by a classical guitarist in Finland. You can contact my privately for a price.

Why deeper ribs? Because I want to hear what happens. By deeper I mean 3-1/2” instead of 3”

Both will work.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2023 13:48:12
 
JasonM

Posts: 1991
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

Wow that little guitar is impressive! just needs a cutaway lol! Then it could be the perfect couch guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2023 15:03:13
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14231
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Before I forget, the 1555 publication of On Playing the Vihuela ~ De Taner Vihuela

https://lutesocietyofamerica.org/journal/journal-1995-vol-xxviii-journal-1996-vol-xxix/

I tested the link to download the PDF it’s good.

Unfortunately I have a copy of this book published by the Lute Society of America, but I had to leave the majority of my library in California and it wasn’t feasible to bring it along. My library is still marooned somewhere in the Santa Cruz mountains in a deceased sculptor’s studio.

But Ricardo you’ll love this book of 16th century theory.


Thanks man! Love it. The guy was totally nerding out. I love how he is basically inventing EQ temp, with same fudge room we still use pretty much, and 200 years later Bach is still dealing with convincing people of it’s practicality. If only Bermudo had an Ab major fugue to prove it to everybody (in case you didn’t hear the story of Bach making fun of the famous new organs being built by testing them with that piece so everybody hears the dissonances clearly). So I am only through the beginning but there is no capo…hence his “imaginary” 7 Vihuelas that he wants people to use for transpositions. (Maybe a capo option is mentioned later in the book?)

A while back we had the solfège argument, regarding how modern flamenco people use it. It seems left over from the the overlapping solmization system, where both CDEFG and GABCD are the same (do re mi fa sol). Also forgot back then how the natural sign and flat sign are “H and b” respectively, the letter B itself, subject to alteration. I often thought they did not even use letters back then, but it is clear they did. Flamenco folks do not use letters, (and most often not standard notation either). The old fashion sharps were X symbols. To confuse things, some tablature was done not with numbers but with letters indicating frets. Anyway, at some point the solfège replaces do re mi fa sol, in the upper tetra chord with sol la si do re. In the old mentality, if they had a melody with Bb, they change literal “la si bemol, do” to “mi fa sol”, and this helps with sight singing and transposition etc. But for understanding music it is really not practical. I pointed out how this goes back to Ancient Greece where one system is for singing, and the other for instrumentalists. Bermudo is bridging the two concepts here (adapting singing to an instrument).

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2023 13:05:33
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

I’m thought you’d get a kick out of that.

Bermudo suggests equal temperament and fixed frets instead of gut frets. It only took 350 more years for flat brass bar frets and ET to become standard.

Tab is also a brain teaser. French tab reads one way and Italian tab reads as the mirror. One starts with the treble E at the top of the tab staff and the other with bass E at top of tab staff. Spanish music is entabulated in Italian tab because certain city states in the 16th century were under heavy influence by Spain and its cultural influence. Remember Italy is a bunch of provinces without central government until the 19th century ( just like Japan)

Then German baroque tab is even different again. That’s what Bach dealt with.

Bermudo and his colleagues were ahead of their time.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2023 15:00:35
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ow that little guitar is impressive! just needs a cutaway lol! Then it could be the perfect couch guitar


I’m lazy so I avoid playing above the 11th fret. So non cutaway is ideal.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2023 15:03:29
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

I need to get on those ribs.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2023 15:12:24
 
silddx

Posts: 415
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

It's great! Looks wickid! I'd love one with an ebony fingerboard.

How's the string tension?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2023 19:23:57
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

I have ebony fingerboards.

The tension isn’t any different than a regular 640-650 scale with nylon strings. With gut it’s a bit different, but not significantly so as to cause trouble.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2023 1:25:38
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14231
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Bermudo suggests equal temperament and fixed frets instead of gut frets. It only took 350 more years for flat brass bar frets and ET to become standard.

Tab is also a brain teaser. French tab reads one way and Italian tab reads as the mirror. One starts with the treble E at the top of the tab staff and the other with bass E at top of tab staff. Spanish music is entabulated in Italian tab because certain city states in the 16th century were under heavy influence by Spain and its cultural influence. Remember Italy is a bunch of provinces without central government until the 19th century ( just like Japan)


The thing you linked to doesn’t have music, (other than the one demo of the two vihuelas), looks like that is in the final book? Also they say there are two other books in his collection (5 printed, then two more printed later cuz paper ran out, this translation you linked to is from book 4). Yes the tab is tough to read. It seems, based on what I have looked over (my dad had Narvaez 6 books in one big collection which I have, and I have seen Mudarra on line) that each guy had a different tab system. Not much changed since then when you consider the guitar magazines of the 80s (I always gravitated toward Guitar for the Practicing Musician style sheets), though today Guitar Pro has standardized it and even Beato admits it is better to use for musicians in general than Finale etc.

Just wanted to add, cuz it is interesting to me anyway, a while back Kitarist posted a link to some Flemish thing and the proof of authorship was corroborated by some bizarre 4 line tab in yet another book by Luis Venegas which he linked to. Well, I finally look at his system and it is yet different. He assigns pitch’s to three instruments (Vihuela keyboard and harp) with numbers, then reduces vocal parts to single lines (they look like tab strings but are not) and the numbers (1-7 with dots or lines to indicate octaves) are the pitches. To read it you have to get familiar with whichever instrument and its pitches. The interesting thing (for me anyway) is that many transcriptions try to claim the pitches of the vihuelas are all over the place (like capo 3 on a modern guitar etc.), but this picture proves a “mentality” that Vihuela, as this guy thinks of it, as exactly like the modern guitar (with third string down to F#). The picture is not a lefty guitar but a mirror image (as if you are holding the vihuela in a mirror). And if you play the numbers in order ignoring open strings as it reads, it is a nice F lydian scale 1-7 all the way up.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2023 12:21:01
 
Joan Maher

 

Posts: 189
Joined: Dec. 3 2013
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

Very Nice Stephen sounds great and loud for such a small body

_____________________________

Gracias!


Joan Josep Maher
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2023 11:15:03
 
estebanana

Posts: 9197
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: 19th century spirit guitar (in reply to estebanana

The sides on this young old thing are quite thin, about 1.6 - 1.7 mm, Cypress. Instead of worrying about fitting call this together in an outside mold I just built and rebuilt this on the fly solera.

The ribs are taped around the top to hold them while I put in the glue blocks. And the pillars hold the sides at 90 degrees to the top plane.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 13 2023 1:35:32
Page:   [1] 2 3    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1] 2 3    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.078125 secs.