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Building two classicals on a deadline- will I make it?   You are logged in as Guest
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estebanana

Posts: 8744
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

Building two classicals on a deadlin... 
On my docket right now: Two classical guitars both due by the end of November.

Client #1 Sugiyama-san - cedar top, Macassar sides, Sakura back - 640 mm scale
Client #2 Muremuna-san - spruce top, Thai rosewood back & sides - 640 mm scale

Join in progress, place your bets.

Meet my project manager:



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 14 2022 4:32:43
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
This is the bracing pattern. Seven lousy fans with no closing bars. Big whoop. I copped it from looking at ‘ol masters’ of the 20th century.

The braces are pointed just under the center of the Tenth fret. Why? Because it seems cool.
The cedar top is 2.5 milli from the low transverse brace ( that’s harmonic bar for those of you who speak Romanillos)

Top thickness in the action zone is 2.5 in the middle and around the perimeter it’s 2.0 graduated to the 2.5 center area over a distance of 60 mm from edge to center.

So there’s a swath of graduation from 2.0 to 2.5 from the edge for 60 mm. Like a horseshoe shape.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 14 2022 5:38:02
 
estebanana

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Skip ahead to this stage which was finished last week around October 5th



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 14 2022 5:41:54
 
estebanana

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Here’s the closed up Cedar top around October 9th.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 14 2022 5:43:36
 
estebanana

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Braced up spruce top from October 12th

The top is fairly thick, but I forgot the graduation off hand…

It follows the same scheme as the cedar with meaty center and a perimeter graduation down to 2.0 milli.

Then the braces begin the slope from full height to the low end in a way that correlates to the graduation areas.
So as the braces taper down to nothing, the graduation from full center thickness also follows the taper of the braces.

The braces get thinner in the same region the top is graduated thinner.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 14 2022 5:45:25
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
The Cedar with Sakura back and Macassar sides ( upper photo) is the sister to the one I sent out last month with the same back and sides. (Lower photo) I wish I could have been able to build them as a pair, but my list schedule didn’t allow for it.





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 14 2022 5:55:55
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
This is Orangie, she joined the shop in July. She’s about six years old and used to live with an older couple about three blocks away. The couple died and she was left in the street for a few months. She came to my door and couldn’t move much, very sick. She followed me around outside for a day. Then we took her to the vet and got her checked out. She had anemia and respiratory problems. I fed her fresh fish and good food until she began to put on weight. She’s doing better now and likes to hang out when I work, often getting in the way.

She’s not a big cat, but has gained popularity with my friends on Instagram because she poops out huge turds. In the beginning she was constipated and I thought she would die, but on the forth day she mounted the litter box and pooped out a gargantuan turd. I began to think she would make it.







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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 14 2022 6:05:59
 
tri7/5

 

Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012
 

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Those macassar sides are still outstanding. Looks like another great one similar to the other you recently finished.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2022 17:29:24
 
RobF

Posts: 1366
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
The rosette on the cedar topped guitar is a perfect match to the macassar sides. Also, the back’s center stripe marries nicely with the neck lamination and visually pulls it all together. Very attractive.

Question: is the heel a different genus of wood from the rest of the neck? I’ve seen old Ramirez guitars that sure look like they have cedro necks with mahogany heels, so I’m wondering if you’re doing something similar. Or is it just the grain direction and lighting that’s making it look like different colours of cedro in the picture? It’s not a trick question, lol, I was actually taught that cedro/mahogany is a valid combination.

Another question: I like using one piece diagonally slanted grain heels a lot, but I’m not married to any one style - stacked, single block vertical or slanted grain - it’s all good, although I like the look of single block slanted the most. But last time I was in Spain a maker dumped all over me for not using a stacked heel. I was kind of astounded, actually. Do you have any preferences?

Your cat’s a sweetheart, BTW.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2022 23:11:43
 
Stu

Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Wonderful stuff! I struggle with too many words these days due to time constraints, and mental capacity, so pictures are right up my street! Thanks for posting. Yeah I had to check the dates for a second as that maccasar sides guitar was a bit of de ja vu. But I see it's a sister guitar!

And I love the cat and its back story! Thanks for sharing that. 👌
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 15 2022 23:28:43
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
I don’t know if the heel stack wood is a different genus, but it’s a different species than the neck. 😂

The neck is cedrella odorata - genus Cedrela you know Cuban Cedar

The heel is something I forgot to name of, I’ll remember.

I’m not worried if it’s a stacked heel or a single piece block. I don’t have time to dither over that. The single block is nice if you can get it, but I don’t see why anyone would give you trouble over using it. It wastes a lot of wood and I’m such an enviro- weenie that that bothers me.

Anything strong enough, the correct weight and not prone to split is fair for heels. Mixing and matching within reason is fair game.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 16 2022 10:36:35
 
RobF

Posts: 1366
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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Oh man. I looked up “genus” on Wikipedia and decided it would be easier to just stop using the word than reading through the article to figure out how to use it correctly, lol.

Thanks for your thoughts on the heel blocks. I cut my neck wood out of larger 12/4 boards so generally I can grab chunks off the ends to purpose for blocks. Other than that, it appears we’re pretty much on the same page. Good to know. Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 16 2022 12:19:09
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to RobF) 
The heel wood I’ve been using for a while is called Mersawa. It’s from Malaysia. It’s used in Japan for door frames of custom shoji doors.



Taxonomic classification for Luthiers:

You don’t have to worry about Genus and Species, it’s Pylum, Class and Family that matters:

Is it in the plant world? Phylum check

Is it wood? Class check

Is it a wood guitar makers will argue about? Family check

Genus and Species? Irrelevant, as long as you argue about it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 16 2022 14:24:45
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1609
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Some of us have come close to leaving the soundboard-to-solera clamp in place while gluing the back on--and some have actually done it. I hope you won't leave your cat inside the soundbox by mistake....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 16 2022 19:52:03
 
Stu

Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to constructordeguitarras) 
yeah, I have a 50/50 hit rate with such a blunder.


My friend close up with his phone inside!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 18 2022 7:22:36
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Pre closer checklist lol 😂







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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2022 5:33:00
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Binder clips almost seem made for this job. I just wish there were some very narrow ones with the same depth.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2022 7:10:42
 
RobF

Posts: 1366
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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
I find the smaller sized ones work very well, too. I think they’re about 20mm wide and they fit snugly over the lining (better fit, actually). I can post a picture, if you want.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2022 13:19:17
 
estebanana

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
I think these are 2 centimeter clips, but let’s see let’s see the ones you’re using.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2022 15:17:24
 
RobF

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
I just measured the small ones at 20mm width and the large at ~35mm. I tend to use the large ones for general use and clamping purfling strips to the bottom edge of binding and the small ones for clamping the lining. Here’s a photo of the small ones in use, they snug down right onto the top of the liner:




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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2022 16:17:33
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
I’d like to request a close up of the green tape.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2022 7:12:55
 
RobF

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Lol. One says “Remove before back glue” and the other “Do Not Leave In!”
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2022 15:23:29
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Label action, not libelous action 😂

Well then, two guitars with backs on and waiting for binding and boards. Instead of pushing one ahead I wanted them both to get binding at the same time. While one is drying I can fit the binding on the other.







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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2022 5:04:58
 
estebanana

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Label





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2022 5:34:34
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1504
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
I didn’t know OfficeMax sold luthier supplies...


quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Binder clips almost seem made for this job. I just wish there were some very narrow ones with the same depth.




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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2022 13:38:23
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

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Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Great looking guitar, but you misspelled your name...


quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Label






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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2022 13:40:03
 
estebanana

Posts: 8744
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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Anyway

Like I’ve said I’m not a rosewood guy first and foremost. I used to work in a vegan restaurant even though I’m not a vegan, I’m a voracious omnivore. Mostly vegetables and fish. But when I worked in the vegan kitchen I came to respect people who wanted to eat a vegan diet. After work I’d often go out with one of the co owners to get a a burger or pizza. One owner was vegan, the other was not and they got along well enough to have a restaurant together for 8 years.

So my offerings of ‘non meaty’ woods is like a vegan option in a meat heavy market place, but of course I’m flexible and offer rosewoods, just not wall to wall rosewood to the exclusion of all other woody menu items. My restaurant of backs and sides averages about 50/50 or 40/60 with non rosewood plates being the majority of woods served. People should be offered the foods they want, but as the chef I also push my own tastes, because I’m the mothetfucking head chef in my restaurant. 😂

This rosewood, I think, is the kind that’s similar to Indian, but comes from Cambodia or Thailand. But oddly the smell when it’s scraped reminds me of Brazilian, but I don’t think think it’s Brazilian.

It’s mystery meat.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2022 4:12:30
 
estebanana

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
So they are built into boxes, now they have to function and look pretty.





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 28 2022 1:47:41
 
estebanana

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
The cedar top with the cherry back is the third instrument this year that I’ve built with Sakura ~ in August I finished and shipped out this nifty Irish Bouzouki to a customer in New Mexico US of A





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 28 2022 1:54:19
 
estebanana

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RE: Building two classicals on a dea... (in reply to estebanana) 
Sakura back and sides



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 28 2022 1:55:53
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