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RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar   You are logged in as Guest
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Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

quote:

ORIGINAL: trivium91

Well the first thread was cedar vs spruce, my plan for a guitar was longer term so I wasn't buying anything at that point. This thread was me digging deeper into actually making the purchase as I feel with the state of world events I may not get another opportunity for a long time. Moreover the Euro is really low right now, who knows if that will change or not.

I will say this again though, regardless of my purchase choice the advice and knowledge has better educated me (and possible to others) so to anyone that feels their time was wasted, I can tell you it was not, instead it was very much appreciated.


So this is the third thread?

Macroeconomic factors should be the least of your concerns when buying a guitar. Learn about the genre and go from there. For example, if you will be accompanying dancers a blanca is a good choice. The fan pattern of a blanca reduces sustain - which interferes with the percussive aspect of the guitar. If you’re performing solo pieces, which is a small part of the genre, a negra would be a good choice. According to one of the Foro luthiers the tension of the top and strings on some flamenco guitars helps the string snap back into place during fast picados. Spend a few years learning about the genre.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 17:16:40
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

No Definitely not the third thread, The advice makes sense. I have the luxury of listening to music for hours a day, I’ve been listening to flamenco for a few years now so that’s definitely a start to understanding it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 18:03:19
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to tri7/5

quote:

ORIGINAL: tri7/5

With all your worry about what other players guitars cost, how to convince your wife of financial purchases, and all your airing of comments/replies that are in no way beneficial you could have been playing guitar and finding out your own path. Your concerns and worries are heavily misplaced. Do you actually want to play flamenco guitar or not?


You’re absolutely right, I worry too much what others think. I should just ignore off putting comments and just forget about and play.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 18:15:41
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13512
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

This.



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Attachment (1)

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 18:39:55
 
kitarist

Posts: 1551
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

This.





Always cracks me up

BTW guys, trivium91 is not a troll - e.g. he posted his real name in his profile so maybe don't push too hard for now - he is just trying out the waters..

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 18:53:18
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to kitarist

Thank you this is true. I’m not deliberately trying troll here, my mind just works a little different is all. I have a lot of stress in my life, flamenco is supposed to be an outlet.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 25 2022 19:58:57
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

Just got my Camps Primera in and it is absolutely beautiful! It sounds very Flamenco and resonate, also the cypress smells stunning. Compared to my Paco F7 which is decent for the money I think, the camps sounds amazing. Legatos and hammer ons are more lively and have more volume and less dull. The neck is really comfortable, nice and thin. The quality on this guitar seems to be top notch. Did I mention the resonate lively sound? For anyone that is on the fence about the Primera line, I can honestly say this guitar has blown me away. Also im not sure if this is a comparison of spruce vs cedar but my golpes are much more satisfying and loud with just a light tap. What I don't understand though is how much sustain it has, especially for cypress, though whatever it is...it sounds and plays awesome. I even played both for someone who doesn't know guitars or flamenco at all, they immediately pointed out the differences.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 30 2022 16:53:33
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to kitarist

quote:


BTW guys, trivium91 is not a troll - e.g. he posted his real name in his profile so maybe don't push too hard for now - he is just trying out the waters..


Yeah I've read this thread a few times and can't really see why people are getting a bit bent out of shape.

Hes just a dude thats dealing with some self doubts and fears and thoughts about spending on a new guitar. He's not been rude or unpleasant.

Maybe it feels like some advices have been ignored etc but I wouldn't take that as a sign of malicious intent. His responses to your challenges seem to make him sounds like a decent sort to be honest.

I hope the guitar works out for you trivium. When you decide to upgrade... I'm about to start making number 3! 😄 it's yours for the right price! 😄 jokes..I'm keeping it!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2022 9:42:49
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Stu

Thanks for sticking up for me, and sounds great. I suspect my next guitar will one day be a luthier made model maybe way down the road but for now I’m really enjoying the camps. Yea unfortunately I don’t mean to ignore any advice but I can’t please everyone so I have to do what I feel is best for me and my family at this point in time.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2022 16:42:23
 
Mitch

Posts: 48
Joined: Nov. 24 2005
From: AZ

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

Congrats. I’m glad you’re pleased with it, and I hope it serves you well for a long time.

If you noticed in my praise of my friend’s guitar, I never added “for the money” or any other disclaimer. His is a great guitar without any asterisks needed.

Between us and our extended flamenco family, we’ve had many very fine, very expensive guitars, and his Camps impressed us both. If I could be honest with myself, it would be more than enough guitar for me. Luckily I can rationalize anything so I don’t need to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

Have fun with it. New guitar days are the best.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2022 20:44:41
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Mitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mitch

Congrats. I’m glad you’re pleased with it, and I hope it serves you well for a long time.

If you noticed in my praise of my friend’s guitar, I never added “for the money” or any other disclaimer. His is a great guitar without any asterisks needed.

Between us and our extended flamenco family, we’ve had many very fine, very expensive guitars, and his Camps impressed us both. If I could be honest with myself, it would be more than enough guitar for me. Luckily I can rationalize anything so I don’t need to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

Have fun with it. New guitar days are the best.


That's awesome, I guess its hard to get out of the "you get what you pay for" mentality. Its not true with wine in my experience, it sounds like its not always true with guitars either. Thanks for the recommendation though on Camps, loving the new guitar. All being said though I've realized there is likely around 200 hours or more that go into making a guitar so if I put myself into a luthiers shoes, $4000 every month subtracting materials certainly is not making anyone rich. Camps must just have their factory formula down to a 'T' to make them as high quality as they do.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2022 22:50:40
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

quote:


That's awesome, I guess its hard to get out of the "you get what you pay for" mentality. Its not true with wine in my experience, it sounds like its not always true with guitars either. Thanks for the recommendation though on Camps, loving the new guitar. All being said though I've realized there is likely around 200 hours or more that go into making a guitar so if I put myself into a luthiers shoes, $4000 every month subtracting materials certainly is not making anyone rich. Camps must just have their factory formula down to a 'T' to make them as high quality as they do.


There are luthiers on the Foro that sell their guitars for $4,000 or less. Why don’t you ask them how many hours it takes to build a guitar? I have a feeling you won’t stop talking about this factory guitar brand until you believe the entire Foro is on board with you regarding its quality and the wise decision you made in purchasing one.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2022 15:47:01
 
JasonM

Posts: 1851
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to trivium91

Congrats on the new guitar! Your happy and that’s what counts. I’ve read some decent remarks here over the years about the Camps guitars, never played or heard one personally.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2022 16:31:04
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

quote:


That's awesome, I guess its hard to get out of the "you get what you pay for" mentality. Its not true with wine in my experience, it sounds like its not always true with guitars either. Thanks for the recommendation though on Camps, loving the new guitar which is why I said they had the formula down to a T. All being said though I've realized there is likely around 200 hours or more that go into making a guitar so if I put myself into a luthiers shoes, $4000 every month subtracting materials certainly is not making anyone rich. Camps must just have their factory formula down to a 'T' to make them as high quality as they do.


There are luthiers on the Foro that sell their guitars for $4,000 or less. Why don’t you ask them how many hours it takes to build a guitar? I have a feeling you won’t stop talking about this factory guitar brand until you believe the entire Foro is on board with you regarding its quality and the wise decision you made in purchasing one.


No I dont need validation on my purchase, I've done some research on the hours its takes, though as you said it would be interesting to talk to a few luthiers. I wasn't comparing camps to a luthier built guitar because as much as I like the guitar, Camps is still a factory guitar after all so there is nothing extremely special about them other than the fact that they are great guitars which is why I said they must have their formula down to a T. I would say at this point that the end goal would be the luthier build as I've realized its like artwork. I guess all im saying is the cost of a luthier build is easily justified when you factor in the amount of hours that go into it by one very skilled individual. As a result, a factory guitar is likely never going to be built with the passion that a luthier build would.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2022 16:36:38
 
ernandez R

Posts: 575
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

I wrote the following a few days ago over to the Delcamp:


Ive been thinking about this thread and what the OP is asking and also what they had not asked. I’m a beginning luthier but I don’t make traditional Spanish guitars or use traditional woods so I’m out of the running as it were.

But…. anyone in todays market asking for a hand made guitar for $2000-3000 USD, well its posable those days are done. I figure about 200-250 hours to build one of my guitars, most of my woods start with a , tree, log, or billet. Takes time to processes this wood, I’m not just buying tops or pre carved necks from LMI and in fact the only parts I do not make from something are the frets and the strings. Ok you got me, I don’t scrape the bug **** off the trees to make my shellac buttons or distill the alcohol to thin it with, I don’t even know what a linseed look like, and the envrimentslst in me just looks the other way when I’m squeezing the two components out of the epoxy tubes….

Ok, say I rock one out at 200 hours and agree for you to pay $2000, thats $10.00 an hour and we haven’t even payed for the shop rental electricity and heating oil, we suffer up here in Alaska without air conditioning cause, well cause we can.

Now, this 200 hour guitar is going to be a standard shape and scale, oh you want/need a shorter scale? Oh my, now all me pre cut pieces of wood don’t fit, my molds and bending jigs and binding strips, my fret slotting set ups, wow, that custom scale and neck etc just added another 20-50 hours.

Rosette? Custom? Ha ha haha hai haaaaa I’m going to the mad house cause I can’t afford to go to the poor house.

Ill tell you secret, I built my vary first guitar in fourteen days, twelve to sixteen hour days cause I’m like that, a little OCD, a little on the spectrum, a little bit country and a little bit rock-n-roll. Shhhhh, Today I could whip out a guitar in about sixty hours, probably forty, but you wouldn’t want it and I wouldn’t sign my name to it. Why do you think the cheap versions most of the luthiers who post here sell come unsigned? My latest guitar just went to the gallery at $5,600, I’ve probably have better then three hundred hours in her but who’s counting, the gallery takes their cut, at that rate we are talking about $15 an hour, I would make more washing dishes at my partners restaurant, get tips, and a free shift meal…

I see you are on the east coast- cull pepper, Northern New York , Andy Culpepper, this is the luthier you want, think a little more about your needs, woods and details, and yes even that ‘shorter scale’ then give him a ring. He is not new and up and coming but he is fresh and just might bend that little bit you need to meet somewhere in the middle of your playing needs and his empty luthier wallet.

And don’t get me wrong, If you were in the northwest or Alaska I would sell you one of my guitars like selling ice cubes to Eskimos…


HR

ps. I wrote this partially tongue in cheek ;) please don't take offense.


_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2022 21:18:45
 
trivium91

 

Posts: 149
Joined: Jan. 24 2022
 

RE: Concert Guitar vs Student Guitar (in reply to ernandez R

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernandez R

I wrote the following a few days ago over to the Delcamp:


Ive been thinking about this thread and what the OP is asking and also what they had not asked. I’m a beginning luthier but I don’t make traditional Spanish guitars or use traditional woods so I’m out of the running as it were.

But…. anyone in todays market asking for a hand made guitar for $2000-3000 USD, well its posable those days are done. I figure about 200-250 hours to build one of my guitars, most of my woods start with a , tree, log, or billet. Takes time to processes this wood, I’m not just buying tops or pre carved necks from LMI and in fact the only parts I do not make from something are the frets and the strings. Ok you got me, I don’t scrape the bug **** off the trees to make my shellac buttons or distill the alcohol to thin it with, I don’t even know what a linseed look like, and the envrimentslst in me just looks the other way when I’m squeezing the two components out of the epoxy tubes….

Ok, say I rock one out at 200 hours and agree for you to pay $2000, thats $10.00 an hour and we haven’t even payed for the shop rental electricity and heating oil, we suffer up here in Alaska without air conditioning cause, well cause we can.

Now, this 200 hour guitar is going to be a standard shape and scale, oh you want/need a shorter scale? Oh my, now all me pre cut pieces of wood don’t fit, my molds and bending jigs and binding strips, my fret slotting set ups, wow, that custom scale and neck etc just added another 20-50 hours.

Rosette? Custom? Ha ha haha hai haaaaa I’m going to the mad house cause I can’t afford to go to the poor house.

Ill tell you secret, I built my vary first guitar in fourteen days, twelve to sixteen hour days cause I’m like that, a little OCD, a little on the spectrum, a little bit country and a little bit rock-n-roll. Shhhhh, Today I could whip out a guitar in about sixty hours, probably forty, but you wouldn’t want it and I wouldn’t sign my name to it. Why do you think the cheap versions most of the luthiers who post here sell come unsigned? My latest guitar just went to the gallery at $5,600, I’ve probably have better then three hundred hours in her but who’s counting, the gallery takes their cut, at that rate we are talking about $15 an hour, I would make more washing dishes at my partners restaurant, get tips, and a free shift meal…

I see you are on the east coast- cull pepper, Northern New York , Andy Culpepper, this is the luthier you want, think a little more about your needs, woods and details, and yes even that ‘shorter scale’ then give him a ring. He is not new and up and coming but he is fresh and just might bend that little bit you need to meet somewhere in the middle of your playing needs and his empty luthier wallet.

And don’t get me wrong, If you were in the northwest or Alaska I would sell you one of my guitars like selling ice cubes to Eskimos…


HR

ps. I wrote this partially tongue in cheek ;) please don't take offense.



Makes perfect sense, so really the time estimate I had was not far off. The asking prices are fully justified especially considering the cost of living these days. Making a guitar is like artwork. My father builds hot rods and it’s the same thing with time, he also puts his blood sweat and tears into the project. It kind of reminds me a Paco though, as talented as he was and has intense his practice his net worth was still only 1.5 million, yet Taylor swift is 400 million, go figure. At any rate, im sure down the road i will buying another guitar somehow and it will have to be a luthier built one from one of you fine gentlemen on here.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2022 22:44:49
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