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Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras   You are logged in as Guest
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Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020
 

Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras 

Hi All & Ricardo!

I was wondering if some or possibly Ricardo can explain this. It was a member having problems with triplet ras. Mine has improved but I can always do a different way on working on it. I just want to see if I understand this...Here is what Ricardo quoted!

quote:

Ricardo -> RE: Triplet rasgueado wall (Jul. 21 2015 16:37:41) you reset think about some simple math/rhythm tricks. You want triplet technique to work as 4's? Use 3/4 meter: P-am-p-P..am-p-P-am ..p-P-am-p/ P stop and let beats 2 and 3 click by then repeat

Notice the marote happens 4x per measure even though the BEAT is felt in 3... So even if you have a Heavy P upstroke you can still get this thing to work as syncopation targeting only the Downbeat of each bar as you get faster. The metronome just helps with speed.


Does this mean you count like this in 8th notes using 3/4 meter

P-am-p-P..am-p-P-am ..p-P-am-p
1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 2 & 3 &

Thanks Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 16:25:28
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaloguitarist
Does this mean you count like this in 8th notes using 3/4 meter

P-am-p-P..am-p-P-am ..p-P-am-p
1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 2 & 3 &



It's my impression -am- is meant to be 1 stroke performed by 2 fingers simultaneously and Ricardo is aiming for:

P-am-p/P-am-p/P vrs P-am-p-P/am-p-P-am/P
1...>...>/2...>...>/3 vrs.1...>...>.>/..2...>..>..>../3.

1 and a/2 and a/3 vrs 1 and to the/2 and to the/3
So 3 strokes a beat versus 4 strokes a beat.

Ricardo seems to drop it in a 3 beat cycle like this:

P-am-p-P /am-p-P-am /p-P-am-p /P...
1...>...>..>/..2...>..>...>../3.>...>...>./1........./2......./3
1........&...../.2......&......../3.....&....../1.......

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The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 18:12:09
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Erik van Goch

quote:

It's my impression -am- is meant to be 1 stroke performed by 2 fingers simultaneously and Ricardo is aiming for:

P-am-p/P-am-p/P vrs P-am-p-P/am-p-P-am/P
1...>...>/2...>...>/3 vrs.1...>...>.>/..2...>..>..>../3.


Opps, I did not mean for the "am" to be played as 2 notes but 1...

But my point is Ricardo seems to indicate that rather then count as triplets...To count in 8th notes with a 3/4 meter..

so what I was asking is...Am I to do it like this STRAIGHT 8th notes with 3/4 meter

P am P P am P
1 & 2 & 3 & Notes
U D D U D U Direction

I read that this should help with the continues roll...

Thanks,
Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 18:50:24
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

See the other part of my post, especially the line on the bottom :-).

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The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 18:52:37
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

P-am-p-P /am-p-P-am /p-P-am-p /P...
1...>...>..>/..2...>..>...>../3.>...>...>./1........./2......./3
1........&...../.2......&......../3.....&....../1.......


this part....sorry to sound ignorant...LOL


P is 1 AM is & P is 2 AM is & P is 3 etc.

It is hard for me to understand the way it look via the foro...I am also dyslexic...

Thanks,
Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 18:56:00
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1153
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

I would say forget about subdivision of the beats. For a single triplet ras. Focus on the beat 1.
You play P-AM-p-P on beat 1. Let the 2nd and 3rd beat click.
Again P-AM-p-P on beat 1. Let the 2nd and 3rd beat click.
Again etc....

If you want continious triplet ras. Look at 3:55-4:04. In this video he shows P-A-I triplet ras. But think of it as P-AM-p triplet ras.
Ta-ka-ta Ta-ka-ta Ta-ka-ta-Ta, which is P-AM-p P-AM-p P-AM-p P



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 19:11:09
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaloguitarist
It is hard for me to understand the way it look via the foro...I am also dyslexic...

Not sure my tabs look the same for everyone.

Actually the only thing you have to do is play that P-am-p role but in stead of doing 3 strokes a beat we want you to speed up a bit and play 4 strokes a beat.

P-am-p-P. is played in the first beat
am-p-P-am. is played in the second beat
p-P-am-p. is played at the third beat and
P is the last stroke and on beat 1.

So the strokes match
1 and then the
2 and then the
3 and back to
1

Hope this helps.

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The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 19:12:14
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:


P-am-p-P. is played in the first beat
am-p-P-am. is played in the second beat
P-P-am-p. is played at the third beat and
P is the last stroke and on beat 1.


Thanks, for your patients, I will try playing in on beat
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 19:25:09
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

I would say forget about subdivision of the beats. For a single triplet ras. Focus on the beat 1.
You play P-AM-p-P on beat 1. Let the 2nd and 3rd beat click.
Again P-AM-p-P on beat 1. Let the 2nd and 3rd beat click.
Again etc....


Hey Devilhand, thanks for the video....I try to do both PAI and P AM P....

My P AM P is faster then PAI....


Thanks
Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 19:30:24
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaloguitarist

Thanks, for your patients, I will try playing in on beat


You're welcome, hope it's clear for you now.

Note I corrected a mistake in my post which is still visible in your quote. For the correct version se my post below.

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The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 19:31:07
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Erik van Goch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

So this is the correct version.

P-am-p-P. is played in the first beat
am-p-P-am. is played in the second beat
p-P-am-p. is played at the third beat and
P is the last stroke and on beat 1.



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The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2022 19:46:23
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaloguitarist

But my point is Ricardo seems to indicate that rather then count as triplets...To count in 8th notes with a 3/4 meter..

I should simply have said the idea is to count in 16th notes in a 3/4 meter :-).

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The smaller the object of your focus the bigger the result.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2022 8:52:40
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1153
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Erik van Goch

quote:

I should simply have said the idea is to count in 16th notes in a 3/4 meter :-).

Yes, I think so. A single triplet ras P-am-p-P is actually not a triplet. As we can see, it has 4 strokes or 4 16th notes.

@Kaloguitarist
You can think of the first 3 notes P-am-p as grace notes. The last thumb upstroke P is the main note meaning that the first 3 notes glide into that main note P, which is played a bit accented.
Make sure the last P lands on the 1st downbeat of each measure. A similar concept when you practice flamenco tremolo iami-P iami-P etc.

As for the multiple continous triplet ras in the video above, it's in 4/4 time. Each beat is a triplet (Ta-ka-ta).
The first 3 beats are played as a triplet. You end with thumb upstroke P (Ta) on the 1st downbeat of the 4th beat of the measure.
As written above Ta-ka-ta Ta-ka-ta Ta-ka-ta-Ta, which is P-AM-p P-AM-p P-AM-p P

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2022 12:32:06
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13334
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Erik van Goch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaloguitarist

But my point is Ricardo seems to indicate that rather then count as triplets...To count in 8th notes with a 3/4 meter..

I should simply have said the idea is to count in 16th notes in a 3/4 meter :-).


Correct, that is what I meant by 4’s. Groups of 4, even though the technique is triplet based, the evenness of 16ths tends to smooth out the bumps in the road. The idea of 3/4 meter is that whichever stroke you start with, that same stroke ends up as the down beat of the next measure, and as a timing exercise keeps you grounded. Also helpful to start and end with the other two strokes (p down or am), so rhythmic control of each stroke is developed.

Similar to the picado phrases at the end of Zyryab.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2022 17:30:26
 
Kaloguitarist

 

Posts: 126
Joined: May 12 2020
 

RE: Ricardo's Advise On Abanico Ras (in reply to Kaloguitarist

Thanks Ricardo,

I will try what U all stated and Erik thanks again explaination...Same to Devilhand for the chime in.


Kalo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2022 0:33:50
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