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Brendan

Posts: 244
Joined: Oct. 30 2010
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Afghan men more or less have the same rights whether it’s Taliban ruled or overseen rule by the West


Unless they are gay.

Also good luck to anyone practicing any religion other than Islam.

I’d like to hope that female resistance and the practicalities of government will wear the Taliban down but that feels like a stretch. I’ve seen it argued somewhere that the Taliban in 2001 were largely Pashtun, but now they’ve recruited from all the principal ethnicities in Afghanistan, which makes them look more like a legitimate national government. They will need funds, and they’ll probably get them from China, because China would like another client state in Central Asia and not to have its Uighur population supported by successful, experienced insurgents.

But these are the takes of a person who speaks none of the relevant languages, so I hold them very lightly.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2021 9:34:28
 
Escribano

Posts: 6252
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to Brendan

... or listen to or play music, shave, paint pictures, watch tv, fly a kite or access the Internet. At least, that was last time they were in power.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2021 11:02:07
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to Escribano

quote:

.. or listen to or play music, shave, paint pictures, watch tv, fly a kite or access the Internet. At least, that was last time they were in power.


For women it’s a lot worse. At 13 or 14, or even 11 be forced to marry a Taliban fighter who is two or three times your age, possibly as old as you Simon. Then have all your tribal dances and your ability to learn to read put out of reach because your primary job and purpose is to raise kids who’ll be indoctrinated with a severe form of Islam. Plus a whole bunch of other stuff that men don’t suffer.

My aunt is a Republican who I don’t agree with in many policies, but she retired from State Dept the equivalent of a four star general. Her final post was Islamabad- one of the programs she ran was a state Dept thing that rescued child brides from gang leaders and families that gave their girls away. They smuggled them out. She was also in charge of setting up a school system for girls in Fallujah after the fighting stopped there. And I have a couple Afghan women friends who told me some hairy tales. In the East Bay in Hayward and Fremont CA there are probably more Afghans outside Kabul than perhaps London, I’ve spent time with performers and dancers who live there now. I’m not an Afghanistan expert but I know women are getting a way worse deal. As for gay, well, that’s also something that’s divided along rich and poor lines. The Taliban can be bribed.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2021 13:12:40
 
Escribano

Posts: 6252
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to estebanana

I know, sadly.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2021 13:15:23
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3239
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to estebanana

The problems of development, modernization, women's rights, and other elements of discontent in the Muslim World (including Afghanistan) are largely inherent in Islam itself.

Islam as a way of life that unites and transcends the religious and secular worlds presents a problem. The West experienced the eighteenth century Enlightenment and benefited enormously when it separated religion from the secular realm of rational inquiry. Islam has never experienced an equivalent Enlightenment and does not recognize as separate and distinct the secular and religious realms.

One result of this approach was Islam’s refusal to accept the printing press. It was considered a secular sacrilege, and for centuries Ottoman sultans banned printing in Arabic and Turkish, considering it blaspheming the Qur'an to use the Arabic script in such a manner. This had the unsurprising effect of cutting the Islamic World off from many advances in learning.

Nowhere are the impediments to modernization inherent in Islam and its interpretations more apparent than the Shari’a’s pronouncements regarding women. It is said that women are protected under Islam, but too often it is the protection afforded the caged. Women may inherit only half of what a man may inherit. In court, the testimony of two women is required to equal that of one man.

Perhaps most egregious of all, no amount of political correctness or cultural relativism can obscure the fact that "Hudood," as it is known in Pakistan and other countries, is sanctioned by Shari’a law, and, inter alia, it demands that a woman who brings charges of rape in a Shari’a court must produce four male witnesses to testify on her behalf, (as if rape were a spectator sport!). If she cannot produce four male witnesses testifying on her behalf, she herself will be charged with the crime of adultery. While such discrimination against women is not uniformly practiced in Muslim countries with secular legal systems, there are influential groups advocating it. Until women are elevated to a status equal to that of men, Muslim countries will continue to underutilize half of their human capital.

The more secular a Muslim country is, the more advanced and modern it tends to become. Ironically, as brutal as Saddam Hussein was, Iraq under his rule was a largely secular, modernized country. Women often dressed in Western styles, held professional positions, and did not need a male's permission to live their daily lives. One of the saddest developments of the last couple of decades is watching Turkey, which was once a shining example of secularism in the Muslim World, slide back into pre-Ataturk Islam under Erdogan.

In my opinion, one should not hold out much hope for Afghanistan developing a modern political, economic, and social system, given Islam's grip on the country coupled with a relatively primitive culture (again, largely influenced by Islam). We should not think that the scenes of life in Kabul represent the majority of Afghans. Things are very different in much of Afghanistan outside Kabul.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2021 15:09:17
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to BarkellWH

You forgot stoning porn stars from London when they visit grandma in Teheran.
I said women in the urban areas will remember the gains they made temporarily in two decades. I know more women who are from Muslim families than men. They all tell the same one line joke. - Yeah, I understand Catholics, I’m a recovering Muslim myself.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2021 15:31:00
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3239
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to estebanana

I also neglected to mention that Islam condones the death penalty for blasphemy and apostasy. Ayatollah Khomeini's 1989 fatwa mandating death for Salman Rushdie, stating that every Muslim had the duty to kill Rushdie if presented with the opportunity, was based on Rushdie's book "The Satanic Verses." Muslims considered the book blasphemous and Rushdie an apostate.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 26 2021 16:23:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:


I also neglected to mention that Islam condones the death penalty for blasphemy and apostasy. Ayatollah Khomeini's 1989 fatwa mandating death for Salman Rushdie, stating that every Muslim had the duty to kill Rushdie if presented with the opportunity, was based on Rushdie's book "The Satanic Verses." Muslims considered the book blasphemous and Rushdie an apostate.


That’s why every Persian in Irvine says I’m a recovering Muslim. It wasn’t worth the plane ticket to lure him to CA, honor killings are the lowest paid form of assassin work. DAMHIK

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2021 0:49:04
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to Brendan

quote:

Afghanistan, which makes them look more like a legitimate national government. They will need funds, and they’ll probably get them from China, because China would like another client state in Central Asia and not to have its Uighur population supported by successful, experienced insurgents.


If this happens it will be super fun to chide the CCP which never ceases to claim victim hood from the British opium trade.
Oh hey, I see you communist party scabs are the heroin dealers now.

For China to engage Afghanistan would mean getting mixed up in the production and distribution of heroin, or getting paid by the gangs that make it. They’d be really hypocritical and then open to any criticism that they exploit what they preach against.

Which brings up another secret thingy the press isn’t taking about. Given the trumps administrations penchant for getting involved in turning a profit for the Trump Organization via its plethora of shell companies, what did trump get for negotiating the release of 5000 Taliban? Certainly more than a mere promise they wouldn’t attack US troops before the US left.

China giving money to Afghanistan, hmm. Drugs and minerals are all that country has. To extract minerals you have to be in the country with your equipment and companies. The question is, can the future Taliban- whatever coalition that develops, protect Chinese nationals in country for business? Because it’s not likely China will put troops in Afghanistan.


I take it back, the thing China can help the Taliban with is setting up an oppressive surveillance program with cell phones like in Western China. They can sell them more cell phones to give each person and set up a video surveillance state.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2021 8:21:56
 
Escribano

Posts: 6252
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Ayatollah Khomeini's 1989 fatwa mandating death for Salman Rushdie


Rushdie's Penguin editor was a friend of mine and I spent two weeks at her flat in London during that time, for moral support and some protection.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2021 11:15:37
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 441
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to Brendan

All a humanitarian disaster. Especially for women. Getting out is still the right thing to do, as the lesser of two evils. Just wish someone competent was in charge. I suspect the military industrial complex are loving this. Makes the midwits think ending not-officially-wars is bad.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 27 2021 18:09:42
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to Brendan

I’m gonna hit you all up with one more from Heather Cox- Richardson

I think this letter is especially salient because in her opinion Biden is a transitional figure in US politics. Her idea encapsulated in one word is that ( my interpretation) Biden is the Anti-Reagan. What I mean is that Reagan is placed in the US conservative pantheon as the arch individualist, Biden is reigning that back and steering the country towards a being a community.

I have sort of quasi left wing friends in the flamenco community in California. These guys and gals like to think of themselves as cutting edge on politics. They espouse popular rhetoric like ‘defund the police’, I even met people peripheral to flamenco folks in the arts and protest action groups who have conducted classes on how to fight with the police. Which is really a good way to either get killed or get your children taken away from you. It’s a kind of individualism too, and I dare say a type of performative narcissism. The deal is they’ll talk tough and posture as understanding how their politics are a check on the corporate democrats. But as soon as some burglar gets reported in their neighborhood they get on the phone to the police telling them they want some protection.

I see a parallel between these guys and the hyper masculine Republican guys who don’t want their civil liberties curtailed by being told to wear a mask because it’s beneficial to the community. These guys get sick and end up in the hospital, when if they’d followed protocol the odds they would have gotten COVID are much lower. Now why would I care? I care because my sister is a nurse and she’s the one who has first contact with the lefty posers who get skinned knees running around in non essential protests and she takes care of the ‘rugged republican individualists’ who are too steeped in toxic masculinity to wear a damn mask.

My sister the nurse works in Shasta county California, one of California’s ‘Red’ counties. She says the patients she sees are mostly republicans who imbibe lots of Fox News and she has work harder to disabuse them of the wrong advice they get about medicine on that channel. She said the have deep contempt for president Obama and say they are glad they voted against allowing ‘Obama Care’ to become a bigger program than it is. And in the next wheezy breath say thank the lord I’m covered by the ACA ( Affordable Care Act). The ACA prime feature is that it makes it illegal for insurance to discriminate on the basis of pre conditions. They can’t abuse you if you already have had a medical history. The popular name for the ACA is Obama Care because his administration passed it through congress against the will of republican lawmakers.

I can’t make this up- some patients who hate Obama are thankful the ACA is available to them. This is a great irony in the illusion of rugged individualism being sold to the Americans. There is a cultural of self sufficient machismo that ultra conservative politicians exploit. I’m interested in Heather Cox-Richardson because she addresses the problem of individualism vs community-

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 8:55:05
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to Brendan

Con’t from above:

August 27, 2021
Heather Cox Richardson
Aug 28


America is in a watershed moment. Since the 1980s, the country has focused on individualism: the idea that the expansion of the federal government after the Depression in the 1930s created a form of collectivism that we must destroy by cutting taxes and slashing regulation to leave individuals free to do as they wish.

Domestically, that ideology meant dismantling government regulation, social safety networks, and public infrastructure projects. Internationally, it meant a form of “cowboy diplomacy” in which the U.S. usually acted on its own to rebuild nations in our image.

Now, President Joe Biden appears to be trying to bring back a focus on the common good.

For all that Republicans today insist that individualism is the heart of Americanism, in fact the history of federal protection of the common good began in the 1860s with their own ancestors, led by Abraham Lincoln, who wrote: “The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves---in their separate, and individual capacities.”

The contrast between these two ideologies has been stark this week.

On the one hand are those who insist that the government cannot limit an individual’s rights by mandating either masks or vaccines, even in the face of the deadly Delta variant of the coronavirus that is, once again, taking more than 1000 American lives a day.

In New York, where Mayor Bill de Blasio has required teachers to be vaccinated, the city’s largest police union has said it will sue if a vaccine is mandated for its members.


In Texas, Governor Greg Abbott on Wednesday issued an executive order prohibiting any government office or any private entity receiving government funds from requiring vaccines.

In Florida, Governor Ron DeSantis has also forbidden mask mandates, but today Leon County Circuit Judge John C. Cooper ruled that DeSantis’s order is unconstitutional. Cooper pointed out that in 1914 and 1939, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that individual rights take a back seat to public safety: individuals can drink alcohol, for example, but not drive drunk. DeSantis was scathing of the opinion and has vowed to appeal. Meanwhile, NBC News reported this week that information about the coronavirus in Florida, as well as Georgia, is no longer easily available on government websites.

On the other hand, as predicted, the full approval of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine by the Food and Drug Administration has prompted a flood of vaccine mandates.

The investigation into the events of January 6, when a mob stormed the U.S. Capitol to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, also showcases the tension between individualism and community.

Yesterday, after months in which Republicans, including former president Donald Trump, called for the release of the identity of the officer who shot Capitol rioter Ashli Babbitt, Capitol Police officer Lieutenant Michael Byrd, the 28-year veteran of the force who shot Babbitt, gave an interview to Lester Holt of NBC News.

Right-wing activists have called Babbitt a martyr murdered by the government, but Byrd explained that he was responsible for protecting 60 to 80 members of the House and their staffers. As rioters smashed the glass doors leading into the House chamber, Byrd repeatedly called for them to get back. When Ashli Babbitt climbed through the broken door, he shot her in the shoulder. She later died from her injuries. Byrd said he was doing his job to protect our government. “I know that day I saved countless lives,” Byrd told Holt. “I know members of Congress, as well as my fellow officers and staff, were in jeopardy and in serious danger. And that’s my job.”

The conflict between individualism and society also became clear today as the House select committee looking into the attack asked social media giants to turn over “all reviews, studies, reports, data, analyses, and communications” they had gathered about disinformation distributed by both foreign and domestic actors, as well as information about “domestic violent extremists” who participated in the attack.

Representative Jim Banks (R-IN) immediately responded that “Congress has no general power to inquire into private affairs and to compel disclosure….” He urged telecommunications companies and Facebook not to hand over any materials, calling their effort an “authoritarian undertaking.” Banks told Fox News Channel personality Tucker Carlson that Republicans should punish every lawmaker investigating the January 6 insurrection if they retake control of Congress in 2022.

Biden’s new turn is especially obvious tonight in international affairs. The U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, a country we entered almost 20 years ago with a clear mission that became muddied almost immediately, has sparked Republican criticism for what many describe as a U.S. defeat.

Since he took office, Biden has insisted on shifting American foreign policy away from U.S. troops alone on the ground toward multilateral pressure using finances and technology.

After yesterday’s bombing in Kabul took the lives of 160 Afghans and 13 American military personnel, Biden warned ISIS-K: "We will hunt you down and make you pay.”

Tonight, a new warning from the State Department warning Americans at the gates of the Kabul airport to “leave immediately” came just before a spokesman for CENTCOM, the United States Central Command in the Defense Department overseeing the Middle East, announced: "U.S. military forces conducted an over-the-horizon counterterrorism operation today against an ISIS-K planner. The unmanned airstrike occurred in the Nangarhar Province of Afghanistan. Initial indications are that we killed the target. We know of no civilian casualties."

Biden’s strike on ISIS-K demonstrated the nation's over-the-horizon technologies that he hopes will replace troops. Even still, the administration continues to call for international cooperation. In a press conference today, Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby responded to a question about U.S. control in Afghanistan by saying: “It’s not about U.S. control in the Indo-Pacific. It’s about protecting our country from threats and challenges that emanate from that part of the world. And it’s about revitalizing our network of alliances and partnerships to help our partners in the international community do the same.“

Meanwhile, this afternoon, news broke that the Taliban has asked the United States to keep a diplomatic presence in the country even after it ends its military mission. The Taliban continues to hope for international recognition, in part to claw back some of the aid that western countries—especially the U.S.—will no longer provide, as well as to try to get the country’s billions in assets unfrozen.


A continued diplomatic presence in Afghanistan would make it easier to continue to get allies and U.S. citizens out of the country, but State Department spokesman Ned Price said the idea is a nonstarter unless a future Afghan government protects the rights of its citizens, including its women, and refuses to harbor terrorists. Price also emphasized that the U.S. would not make this decision without consulting allies. “This is not just a discussion the United States will have to decide for itself.… We are coordinating with our international partners, again to share ideas, to ensure that we are sending the appropriate signals and messages to the Taliban,” he said.

Evacuations from Afghanistan continue. Since August 14, they have topped 110,000, with 12,500 people in the last 24 hours.

Perhaps the news story that best illustrates the tension today between individualism and using the government to help everyone is about a natural disaster. Hurricane Ida, which formed in the Caribbean yesterday, is barreling toward the U.S. Gulf Coast. When it hit western Cuba today, it was a Category 1 storm, but meteorologists expect it to pick up speed as it crosses the warm gulf, becoming a Category 4 storm by the time it hits the U.S. coastline. The area from Louisiana to Florida is in the storm’s path. New Orleans could see winds of up to 110 miles an hour and a storm surge of as much as 11 feet. Louisiana officials issued evacuation orders today.

The storm is expected to hit Sunday evening, exactly 16 years after Hurricane Katrina did. But this time, there is another compilation: this is the very part of the country suffering terribly right now from coronavirus. Standing firm on individual rights, only about 40% of Louisiana’s population has been vaccinated, and hospitals are already stretched thin.

Today, President Biden declared an emergency in Louisiana, ordering federal assistance from the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to the region ahead of the storm, trying to head off a catastrophe. The federal government will also help to pay the costs of the emergency.

—-

Notes:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/pentagon-officials-hank-taylor-john-kirby-press-briefing-transcript-august-27-afghanistan-update

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/weather/tropical-storm-ida-friday/index.html

https://apnews.com/article/health-louisiana-coronavirus-pandemic-1a2264b5a43033ed70fe9790c2e89437

NYPD story is from the New York Post, but a citation from them always stops the delivery of lots of letters, so I’m going to suggest people look for it themselves.

https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-39_prohibiting_vaccine_mandates_and_vaccine_passports_IMAGE_08-25-2021.pdf

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/08/27/president-joseph-r-biden-jr-approves-louisiana-emergency-declaration-2/

://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/27/afghanistan-kabul-taliban-live-updates/#link-KFQMWZKFSNH4DBBMK2VAJMAZF4

Twitter avatar for @meredithllee
Meredith Lee
@meredithllee
CENTCOM: "U.S. military forces conducted an over-the-horizon counterterrorism operation today against an ISIS-K planner. The unmanned airstrike occurred in the Nangahar Province of Afghanistan. Initial indications are that we
killed the target. We know of no civilian casualties."
August 28th 2021

78 Retweets151 Likes
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2021/08/27/afghanistan-live-updates-taliban-kabul-news/5611093001/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1277715

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-health-education-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-1908088a0b5c5b02d89fd7e007822408

Twitter avatar for @ryanstruyk
Ryan Struyk
@ryanstruyk
The United States is now reporting 1,194 new coronavirus deaths per day, the highest seven-day average since March 19, according to data from @CNN and Johns Hopkins University.
August 27th 2021

246 Retweets677 Likes
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-shot-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol-riot-breaks-silence-n1277736

Twitter avatar for @RepJimBanks
Jim Banks
@RepJimBanks
Read my letter to 1/6 Chair @BennieGThompson about his norm shattering decision to spy on his colleagues.

@ATT @Verizon @TMobile @Facebook @Twitter @FCC ImageImage
August 27th 2021

136 Retweets311 Likes
/photo/2

https://news.yahoo.com/gop-rep-jim-banks-republicans-195845753.html

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/politics/us-military-airstrike-isis-k-planner-afghanistan/index.html

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 9:01:28
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 441
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to Brendan

'Today, President Biden declared an emergency in Louisiana, ordering federal assistance from the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to the region ahead of the storm, trying to head off a catastrophe. The federal government will also help to pay the costs of the emergency.'

Incorrect. Taxpayers are paying.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 9:51:51
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to mrstwinkle

quote:

President Biden declared an emergency in Louisiana, ordering federal assistance from the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to the region ahead of the storm, trying to head off a catastrophe. The federal government will also help to pay the costs of the emergency.'


Congratulations Captain Obvious,

You just proved yourself smarter than the idiot Bernie Sanders.

Tax payers from Hawaii to Maine and Miami to Los Angeles contribute to the money allocated to FEMA. The entire country pays it forward to give the federal government the tools to divert money to help disaster victims. That’s called community working together.

Further the Department of Homeland Security is an organization that was created by a republican president and sucks up more money that it’s worth. It oversees FEMA and other and service emergency agencies that previous to DHS being created were more effective because they operated more autonomously under the direction of the president.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 12:38:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to mrstwinkle

quote:

All a humanitarian disaster. Especially for women. Getting out is still the right thing to do, as the lesser of two evils. Just wish someone competent was in charge. I suspect the military industrial complex are loving this. Makes the midwits think ending not-officially-wars is bad.



I was going to let this one slide because it’s painfully evident you don’t have
An intellectual dog in this fight.

But since you insist on being a snarky ****:

When you dis Biden you are basically dissing the whole US military and it’s professionalism. Biden made the first call on which plan to go with, but when it quickly became clear that it wasn’t working he and the military had lightning fast reflexes that transformed a rough start into the biggest fastest airlift in history. I defy you to find a better run operation in the circumstances of leaving a war that has been lost.

You can go F555ck yourself.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 12:56:25
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 441
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to estebanana

What a nice guy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 14:40:55
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to mrstwinkle

quote:

What a nice guy.


Troll

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 16:44:58
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12957
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to estebanana

They can just show their USA Passports, no problem!



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 19:39:42
 
Escribano

Posts: 6252
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Afghanistan! (in reply to estebanana

It is a huge disaster, whichever way you want to spin it. As a Brit, I feel deeply, deeply ashamed right now. It didn't need to be this way.

Let us leave this here, for now.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2021 22:11:42
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