RE: requesting input

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Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 24 2021 0:57:07

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2021 22:58:32

quique12

Posts: 6
Joined: Mar. 5 2021

RE: requesting input (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

Btw, I've never seen a band with a bunch of drummers.

LOL, I think the man has a point and no need to attack him personally. Just attack his opinion.

The video Ricardo posted, el gran farruco is a good example of overdoing the palmas. You see two guitarrists busting their butt but you can't hear them a bit.

They could as well leave the guitar out and join the army of clappers. lol The video indigo posted is a good example of palmas in the right amount.

Palmas are an important part of flamenco but it's all about balance. How many clappers are enough for one guitarist? 30? 50? 100? lol

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 8:24:44

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: requesting input (in reply to quique12)

quote:

The video Ricardo posted, el gran farruco is a good example of overdoing the palmas. You see two guitarrists busting their butt but you can't hear them a bit. They could as well leave the guitar out and join the army of clappers. lol The video indigo posted is a good example of palmas in the right amount.

Palmas are an important part of flamenco but it's all about balance. How many clappers are enough for one guitarist? 30? 50? 100? lol

As was explained to devilhand, it’s not all about the guitar. While he may be a student of the flamenco guitar, the suggestion has been offered that perhaps he might benefit from also becoming a student of flamenco.

Also, the videos need to be viewed in their context. Flamenco doesn’t need a bunch of guitarists on a forum lecturing it on how it should behave.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 11:44:28

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: requesting input (in reply to RobF)

I never saw any flamenco in Andalucía in the three years I lived there without some palmeros. Probably two at most, not including the knowledgeable audience. I believe singing with palmas and then dance came well before the guitar. The cajón is the most recent standard addition via PdL.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 11:50:54

quique12

Posts: 6
Joined: Mar. 5 2021

RE: requesting input (in reply to Morante)

RobF, is that Segovia in your profile picture? Segovia talked rubbish about flamenco and looked down on flamencos. LOL

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 11:58:32

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: requesting input (in reply to quique12)

quote:

RobF, is that Segovia in your profile picture? Segovia talked rubbish about flamenco and looked down on flamencos. LOL

And your point is??

RobF doesn’t talk rubbish about flamenco and look down on flamencos. That’ll have to do.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 12:02:13

quique12

Posts: 6
Joined: Mar. 5 2021

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 24 2021 12:15:34

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 12:08:00

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: requesting input (in reply to Escribano)

To be honest I've never heard any of my non-flamenco friends complain about palmas after a show. Seems very doubtful to me that whether they come back or not would hinge on that. I think they don't come back for the same reason I don't go back to Mongolian throat singing concerts. I wanted to see it once. I did. It was amazing. And that's that. I hope they don't have internal discussions about whether they could retain more concert-goers if only they stopped doing those harmonic tricks so much. Coz that would be rather missing the point. ^^

As for the fin de fiesta vibes where the guitar is drowned out by the rest. Yeah. That happens. Kind of feel like saying that those who are bothered by it should talk to a triangle player and then see if they still feel like complaining that nobody can hear them. ^^

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 12:17:52

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: requesting input (in reply to quique12)

quote:

RobF, is that Segovia in your profile picture? Segovia talked rubbish about flamenco and looked down on flamencos. LOL

Quique 12, what does Rob's profile photo of Segovia have to do with the price of tea in China? You will note that my profile avatar is of Don Quixote and his sidekick Sancho Panza, neither of whom had an opinion on, much less had heard of, flamenco. Yet there they are on a flamenco forum, just as is Rob's Segovia. It helps to keep an open mind when engaging in discussions on the Foro. Not all is always as it appears on the surface.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 12:30:20

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: requesting input (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

The cajón is the most recent standard addition via PdL

We could classify the whole “palmas in your face” argument in with anti cajon folks. This also bleeds into modern stuff with more syncopation in the Compás. The hand of satan is entitled to his opinion, but maybe he will change his views as he becomes more familiar with rhythm complexity.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 14:31:05

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: requesting input (in reply to quique12)

It's not that the palmeros are overdoing it. The guitarists aren't miked. There is only one mike on the table in front of the guitarist in the middle.

I would agree that listeners who are new to flamenco can often become annoyed by palmas. They likely don't understand the support they are giving and can't hear the guitarist take advantage of that support.

A guitarist can play much differently when solid palmas are present. This is obvious even when playing along with compas apps. When a dancer speeds up to a very fast tempo the guitarist might well be grateful for the palmas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: quique12

quote:

Btw, I've never seen a band with a bunch of drummers.

LOL, I think the man has a point and no need to attack him personally. Just attack his opinion.

The video Ricardo posted, el gran farruco is a good example of overdoing the palmas. You see two guitarrists busting their butt but you can't hear them a bit. They could as well leave the guitar out and join the army of clappers. lol The video indigo posted is a good example of palmas in the right amount.

Palmas are an important part of flamenco but it's all about balance. How many clappers are enough for one guitarist? 30? 50? 100? lol

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 16:06:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: requesting input (in reply to quique12)

quote:

The video Ricardo posted, el gran farruco is a good example of overdoing the palmas.

Is that so? Too bad you were not there to inform everyone that was the case.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 16:19:56

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: requesting input (in reply to quique12)

quote:

How many clappers are enough for one guitarist? 30? 50? 100? lol

How many palmeros (clappers) does it take to change a light bulb?

(Someone had to say it, so I volunteered. Pretty cheesy humor, but there it is. I probably should be exiled.)

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 17:47:13

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: requesting input (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

The hand of satan is entitled to his opinion, but maybe he will change his views as he becomes more familiar with rhythm complexity.

I know what I don't know. I personally have other important stuff to learn on guitar than exploring this polyrhythmic palmas.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 21:42:22

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: requesting input (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I know what I don't know. I personally have other important stuff to learn on guitar than exploring this polyrhythmic palmas.

Care to share?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 21:53:08

Stu

Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: requesting input (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I know what I don't know.

Donald Rumsfelds Known unknowns?

you should be more concerned with the unknown unknowns.

Experience is a hard mistress; She gives the test before the lesson

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 22:10:03

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: requesting input (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I know what I don't know. I personally have other important stuff to learn on guitar than exploring this polyrhythmic palmas.

Hi devilhand,

I’m not an expert, but the point I’ve been trying to make is Palmas are a fundamental and the more you can understand their role in flamenco, the more benefit this can be to you as a guitarist.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 22:22:11

BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: requesting input (in reply to RobF)

quote:

And I know what everyone is thinking...”Who flunks a cheesy tourista course??? Well... me.

But could you at least change a light bulb after taking the course?

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 22:46:22

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: requesting input (in reply to BarkellWH)

Aww shoot, I went and deleted the whole anecdote. But in response, that was about all they would let me do after that, lol.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2021 22:48:29

JasonM

Posts: 2055
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: requesting input (in reply to devilhand)

quote:

I know what I don't know. I personally have other important stuff to learn on guitar than exploring this polyrhythmic palma

It’s also the feel of how the guitar and singer plays with rhythm against just basic palmas. As you progress in your journey and compas gets internalized, this where things get fun!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2021 14:34:17