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RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the author?' - ALL OF THEM!   You are logged in as Guest
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Piwin

Posts: 3164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Fluknu

Perhaps. I just haven't seen any kind of radical change in that direction, but then again, I'm not really on top of the news these days.

If anything, I feel that, at least in France and in Spain, the culture is gradually veering further right.

In cultural psychology, tightness/looseness of social norms is sometimes seen as linked to threat perception. Intuitively that makes sense to me. In contexts where the success of the group is hanging by a thread and the consequences of failing can be dramatic, social norms are very tight. In contexts where there's less threat, social norms are more relaxed.

As we seem to be heading towards a future marred with uncertainty, economic, geopolitical, environmental, etc., it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a tightening of social norms. With the consequence of course that those who stray from those norms will pay a higher price than they used to.

BTW, do you think this qualifies as fantasy:





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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 9:00:09
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3146
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

Cancel culture isn’t restricted to the right — in fact there’s a considerable body of research to show that the mentalities of the hard left and the hard right are more similar to each other than to those of the moderates of their own persuasions.


The latest egregious example of "cancel culture" on the left has come from the San Francisco School Board. Mark Twain once observed: "In the first place, God made idiots. This was for practice. Then he made school boards." The San Francisco School Board's recent decision to rename 44 schools demonstrates the ignorance and incompetence of its members as they unwittingly prove Twain's observation correct.

According to an article in "The Atlantic," the board moved in 2018 to establish a commission to evaluate renaming schools to 'condemn any symbols of white supremacy and racism,' said Gabriela López, the board president.

The commission had decided that schools named after figures who fit the following criteria would be renamed: “engaged in the subjugation and enslavement of human beings; or who oppressed women, inhibiting societal progress; or whose actions led to genocide; or who otherwise significantly diminished the opportunities of those amongst us to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

The 44 to be renamed included those named for George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, Paul Revere, Theodore Roosevelt, the poet James Russell Lowell, and even Senator Diane Feinstein, among many others. That our founding fathers kept slaves has long been known, but they are not honored for slavery. They are honored because they created institutions that still ring true today--the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the form of government of checks and balances, etc. That the United States has not always lived up to its promise is no reason to "cancel" their work.

To obliterate their names and not recognize the good they represent while pointing out their flaws, does neither the students nor the public a favor. But that is the purpose of "cancel culture," to obliterate anything that goes against the perceived moral superiority of the self-absorbed idiocy of these arbiters of proper social conduct.

By the way, the board did not recommend that Malcolm X Elementary School be renamed, although Malcolm X during his career was a pimp, a racist against Whites (he called them "ice people") and a one-time follower of that antisemitic, bigoted, racist Louis Farrakhan. Guess that was a bridge too far for this august group of poseurs masquerading as historians.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 13:00:37
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Fluknu

quote:


Cancel culture is really a leftist thing. Certainly used by the right, but it's been used by Mao,Staline, in all the communists country.

The left is making a big mistake. It ask us to accept all minorities, except the one they despise... so they have to be canceled.

It's not going to be just a fad..here in Europe. It's gonna swipe through our culture and make really ugly ravages.

According to me it's the end of post modernism, which is bending towards fascism.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for inclusiveness. But it hasn't to be enforced. It should be taught with love and patience. And the memory of the past should be kept as witness of our developpment (if developpment there is...that's another question)

Cancel culture is a big mistake on the psychological level. What you repress in yourself, will eventually bite you stronger later on. We all know this.


Mao and Stalin were and are not examples of cancel culture, they are totalitarian dictators. Canceling by populist consensus has a shred of democracy they neither of those two mass murderers have.
Conflating Mao, Pol Pot or and European dictator is an American conservative media gimmick. It’s a bias that tries to draw an equivalence between hardline dictators and loopy brained US so called ‘progressives’.

The American left is lacking in many ways, but it’s not close by a long shot to any of the terrible 20th century dictatorships.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 14:38:39
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to BarkellWH

Bill,
I’m connected into the SF teaching community by way if several teachers who work in the district or have murals and other historical art work as part of campuses infrastructure.

The school board has been overdetermined under the leadership of a superintendent who is a zealot. Many long time liberal teachers have protested against the blanket condemnation of certain historical figures. Just saying that from the inside the conversation is complex and many brilliant center left teachers are unhappy with the outcomes of these changes. The superintendent has tunnel vision in my opinion, the boards actions do not represent the complexity of the situation.

Do again I call it not cancel culture, because it’s a top down mandate controlled by a few powerful board members, and not a mass movement. When dictators are calling the shots, it’s not a culture calling for heads to be cut off, it’s a power dynamic that enables the few to control the many. It’s not cancellation by populist decree, it’s quite the opposite. It’s autocratic control.

Cancel culture is when someone leaves their kid in the car while they go to the post office and some busy body snaps a photo and posts it on social media. Then the mindless outrage begins and the public berates the parent who took two minutes to pop an envelope in a collection box. The crowd cancels the parent by researching and divulging personal information about them and creating real obstacles in that persons life.

The school board in SF is a mini totalitarian regime, they don’t cancel, they boss people around. There’s a difference.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 14:57:12
 
Fluknu

 

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 11 2021
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

Estebanana :),

"canceling by populist consensus", that is actually not what is happening. It's a minority who is over represented in the media and certain circles.

As for the gimmick of the right against the left, I do not agree. History shows that the left has had a tremendous tendency towards fascism. That the right is using it as a way to stop it's developpment is certain, and that I agree on. But the tendecy of the left to go to far is well known.

Léo Ferré, a french singer, said in 1971" the left is the waiting room of fascism".

But the thing is very different in Europe. Your left, is kind of our center. LOL The democratic Party is for us not the left. It's more the center.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 15:31:45
 
Fluknu

 

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 11 2021
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

Piwin,

Kamelott is not fantasy. It is accurate description of the middle age :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 15:33:19
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12682
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

When dictators are calling the shots, it’s not a culture calling for heads to be cut off, it’s a power dynamic that enables the few to control the many.


Sorry but your next example of a random person snapping a photo and making it viral on social media IS the same as the above. They are using the technology and format of social media to “control the many”. They feel empowered and have no need for a round table discussion before they enact their judgement and resultant punishment. Everybody with a damn phone is a well protected safe little dictator that can do damage to just about ANYTHING they don’t believe in, in two seconds or less.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 17:51:38
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3146
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

it’s a top down mandate controlled by a few powerful board members, and not a mass movement. When dictators are calling the shots, it’s not a culture calling for heads to be cut off, it’s a power dynamic that enables the few to control the many. It’s not cancellation by populist decree, it’s quite the opposite. It’s autocratic control.


It doesn't have to be a mass movement to define "cancel culture." The San Francisco School Board is just the most egregious example of a movement among many on the left to consider the United States and its Founders so flawed as to not merit recognition for the good things it, and they (the Founders), represent. There have been other examples of attempts to remove the names of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, et al. from public buildings.

Whether it is a dictator exercising autocratic control or a movement of populists imposing their preferred narrative on the populace, it amounts to the same thing: The attempt to dominate the narrative, sometimes by force, sometimes by intimidation, but God forbid we have an honest discussion. Dictators and populist movements almost always lose when they must defend themselves with objective facts.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 20:06:31
 
Piwin

Posts: 3164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Everybody with a damn phone


Maybe the US needs some stricter privacy laws? We had a case not all that long ago on the foro that highlighted just how different the cultural assumptions (and often the legal systems that accompany them) can be with regards to privacy and related issues.

In France it's a mess, but for the most part the balance leans towards the rights of the person whose image is being taken, meaning that the "little dictator" is not necessarily "safe". There's enough there to at least make people think twice before trying to post people's image online without their consent.

Libel and defamation are also easier to establish in court than they apparently are in the US, which may also give people pause before attempting anything like that.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 20:29:49
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

You guys are missing the point- the cancellation culture isn’t about people who hold power through an office, it’s the massing of individuals should don’t have power to rightly of wrongly assign judgement.

Specifically the problem in the US is about race ( which I know many of you do not want to include in a discussion, but nevertheless it’s part of it) the right wing pundits are scapegoating what they label cancel culture when people mass demonstrate a social injustice. Usually carrying on via social media. This form us as old as gossip, which is the proto cancel culture. People who hold official power are different.

You guys are trying to connect the power of office to the power gained by the disenfranchised grouping together. They are two separate things. I’m feeling like Jernigan’s girlfriend in the sushi place- When the sushi cutter answers the question “What’s good?” by pointing the knife at one thing whilst saying everything is good. I thought you guys were smart? There’s a demonstrative separation between the ways in which power is aggregated through public opinion on its own, and public opinion enforced by the state. Seriously do I have to teach the events of the Peoples Revolution, Hitler Youth, Foucault or Hannah Arendt here?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2021 23:20:28
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3146
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

You guys are trying to connect the power of office to the power gained by the disenfranchised grouping together. They are two separate things.


I recognized that they are two separate things, but with the same result, in my statement, "Whether it is a dictator exercising autocratic control or a movement of populists imposing their preferred narrative on the populace, it amounts to the same thing: The attempt to dominate the narrative...." As I stated above, there have been other attempts by groups such as university students and others to "cancel" the Founders by having their names erased from public buildings and monuments. Not all such groups are "disenfanchised." Many are simply left-wingers who identify with the so-called "disenfranchised."

As for "dictators" and the "power of the office," I would remind you that the San Francisco School Board consists of seven members who are elected by the voters. They are not dictators, they hold elective office and thus represent the voters who put them there. That is how our democratic system works at the local level. They may attempt to implement ridiculous measures such as the renaming of 44 schools, but they are the result of the democratic system in action. Perhaps it says something about the majority of San Franciscans who voted them into office.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 1:13:00
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to BarkellWH

Bill,

The results are exactly the same ( on the surface) but I see what you’re getting at. I’m addressing the conflation, which was not yours, that authoritarianism and totalitarian regimes are definitely not equivalent to ‘cancel culture’. That’s a strategy of false equivalence used mainly by hyper conservative media to confuse issues and make fake claims about social issues.

The parsing out of elected officials vs. cancel culture is a bit more murky, but still separate.

My objection to calling Mao a cancel culture figure has to do with how the state administers punishment and how court of opinion operates. You could make a case for each operating non rationally, but the state apparatus for punishment is codified ( mostly ) and legalistic, no matter if they change the goal posts to suit their whims. Power of the state and power of what we are specifically calling cancel culture operate differently. The conflation of the differences is a very dangerous type of thinking.

There’s more than two conversation themes here, the school board is more complicated compared to a straight up comparison between Stalin and ‘Black Twitter’ ~

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 2:58:33
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

The nature of the cancel concept is very elastic and many people are trying to stretch this concept around to include anything that they disagree with or feel threatened by. It’s used across the political spectrum, either as an offensive or defensive mechanism. Or even a backlash upon backlash form of social payback between different polarized groups. But at the core, cancellation culture is a form of group think, that’s all it is in its root basic concept. The reason I say cancel culture is old is because it is group think, and this is very old.

It’s important to keep group think culture separate from elected democratic culture because if conflated the loss is the dilution of democratic discourse. We can’t have rational criticism while people are complaining they have been canceled, and it cuts both ways. Those who have been unjustly cancelled and those who probably really deserve public group think judgements should ultimately both get equality before the laws of the state. When we start saying such and such politicians are playing cancel culture ( and they could well be manipulative at creating falsehoods meant to confuse the public) we risk eroding the bed of rational discussion in the political realm. That’s why I’m Congress you can’t stand up and start cussing out those with whom you disagree and claim they are against me for personal reasons. To legislate effectively the dispassionate or objective logical routes through arguments must be followed.

Being passionate and maintaining objectivity is certainly possible and probably ideal, but when the force of manipulated public opinion is used in place of objectivity we are headed into degraded or lack of logic and rationality. This is all why it’s important to address political grievances through the democratic process and not rely on the fallible courts of group think.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 3:25:07
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to BarkellWH

Bill,

When you stated that is doesn’t have to be a mass culture or group think judgment to constitute ‘cancel culture’ I’m putting up an argument counter to this viewpoint. No offense to you, but I’ve looked at this carefully and disagree. The problem as I stated, is that cancel culture is a loose term that’s being used to cover more territory than its original or working meaning had. I know you don’t like Wikipedia, but the entry in cancel culture, if you’d pause to read it, creates an arguable and succinct definition of what it is and how it’s operating. The key being the argument for an accurate definition. People are trying to plaster this phenomenon over everything and that’s inaccurate.

In the case of SF city schools what they’ve done is worse than cancel culture, which is another reason why bandying about the term gets in my nerves. SF school board is reacting by creating an apolitical school site campus topography. They are not canceling, they are erasing. As a result in part of cancel culture they have decided to play a zero sum game with campus history rather than use the campuses history as a historical document to teach and review historical commentary on the campus. For me, I have no problem with changing the names of the schools, that’s superficial. I have a problem with covering up the murals and other historical documents on campuses that have already been treated by on site commentary about the way the history is written in different eras.

The board has tried to pull down or cover murals they feel are not portraying history in a racially inclusive way, which hurts the historians and artists that have treated successive generations of art and documentaries with continued commentary. The biggest example is that a WPA mural showing the truth about Washington owning slaves is being covered because some students feel offended. The occlusion of this truth is counter productive to the cause of civil liberty, and as such has been treated by a counter mural created in the late 1970’s. Opposite the WPA mural is a mural by a black artist who made a work of art that speaks to the truth of the first mural-

It’s not as simple as cancellation, the creation of an apolitical topography that’s perceived as non offensive is counter productive to the cause of civil justice because it renders the truth mute. The truth that the creators of the country were and should be seen for their gifts and deep flaws. And in trying to make the walls of the schools cleaned of all political evidence of historical change the collateral damage is the the covering or painting over of critical city history speaking to civil rights. In the end the white supremacy regime wins a point, because while erasing the racism to keep from offending, they’ve erased the evidence of injustice. And that’s not cancel culture, that’s tampering with historical narrative to cover their own butts from litigation.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 3:36:37
 
chester

Posts: 812
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

It ask us to accept all minorities, except the one they despise... so they have to be canceled.

What "minority" would that be?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 6:15:51
 
Piwin

Posts: 3164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to chester

quote:

What "minority" would that be?


Yo, minoría absoluta.

Those who got that reference are good people. The rest need to re-examine their life. If you're not making a tortiila in your underwear while singing along to Extremoduro at 3 am in the morning, then what are you even doing with your life?

@estebanana I think I get what you're saying. Just on a side note, I looked up the Wikipedia entry, and given what you're saying here, it's kind of funny that they call it a form of "ostracism", since, because of its origin, that word too presents a certain ambiguity as to whether it's just social shunning or part of a larger political process. Language is messy ^^

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 10:26:08
 
RobF

Posts: 951
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

quote:

If you're not making a tortiila in your underwear while singing along to Extremoduro at 3 am in the morning, then what are you even doing with your life?

Is this “making a tortilla in your underwear” some kind of dance or something? Do you do it on your balcony? Or is this something kids tell their moms when they need a ‘change’? Nahhh, gotta be the dance...

“Yes, ma’am, I understand that he’s standing out there bellowing at the top of his lungs, but what was the other thing you say he’s doing? Jumping up and down while waving his arms in the air and wiggling his ass at you? Looks like he’s wearing diapers?? Look, ma’am, I think the first part is just that new dance craze going around...yes, ma’am, I realize he’s woken half the barrio, lights going on everywhere, you’re not the first caller...OK, we’re sending someone right over...”

This kind of stuff can lead to getting one’s lease cancelled...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 12:53:14
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

P,

I won't belabor the point since you get it. One thing, ostracizing a comedian like the American Louie CK for asking women if he can jerk off in front of them because he's got some sexual kicks to get out that he can't normalize or see a sex professional about is cancel culture. Its a fairly 1st world problem. Louie CK got ostracized for his behavior.

Calling the Cultural Revolution the same thing as ostracizing someone is a misdirection of history. I've seen in my time in China, the scars of the cultural war, the destruction of ancient works of art such as bas relief sculptures around Buddhist sites that were left intact as marks of a culture that ravaged its own past. The destruction in many areas was not smoothed over, but left raw, defacements of old cultural patrimony. The reason they didn't try to make the attacks on the bas reliefs look corrected or restored is because where the vandals took hammers to the works of art, they left a warning for the generations to learn from the mistakes of the Maoist zealotry.

When I was there learning about the cultural revolution some older Chinese teachers said there was a thing they called 'the airplane ride'. People who choose not to comply with the states control would protest, but not a lot, most of those against the cultural revolution would go underground or become silent for fear of the state picking them up and torturing them. If a person was picked up and taken to a camp or black site, the airplane ride was form of execution if they decided to get rid of the guy or gal. Four men grabbed the person by the arms and legs and rocked them back and forth until they got them moving with some velocity, then they aimed their head at a cement wall and smashed the man or woman's skull into the wall until they died.

Our notion of cancel culture isn't the same thing as torture sanctioned by the state carried out by vigilantes. If we normalize the language to include this kind of behavior to be covered by 'cancel culture' we are glossing over acts of terror and abuses of human rights. Our current idea of cancel culture was bred out of complaint culture, a thing from the 1990's. None of this should be confused with despots carrying out state approved violence, or violent vigilante street killings.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 12:56:17
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to RobF

Rob,

I'm unclear on the concept, do you wear only your underwear while cooking the tortilla? Because I've done that. Or do you make the tortilla in your underwear, as in use the underwear as a mold for the tortilla?

Is this a dirty French thing? Should this be cancelled?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 13:06:24
 
RobF

Posts: 951
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to estebanana

I’ve always thought today’s “cancel culture” was more about social ostracism than official banishment. More in line with the the townsfolk sniffing and stopping conversation when Becky Mae walks in the general store, because one half don’t like how she dresses, and the other half don’t want their wives to see how they look at her, rather than to the town council passing a law forbidding shorter floral skirts, loose blouses, and no socks.

It’s just that in the age of twitter and the like, mob mentality can be extremely incorrect and extremely dangerous. Not only can individual lives be destroyed, but people can be killed and wars can be started out of sh*t like this, mark my words. It’s not falling very far from the tree of the kind of stuff that happened in the middle of the last century.

I don’t really see zealots rewriting history, or the state sanctioned oppression of a group, or the like, as being the same thing as cancel culture. It’s just gotten so bad recently that even language is being gaslighted and twisted, at the grassroots level. Has the level of education and ability for discriminating thought fallen so far? Just watch old interviews and newscasts; the current level of articulation found in everyday speech appears to have fallen dramatically from, say, as was found in the beginning of the second half of the last century.

It’s really becoming a disturbing world we live in, but none of this is new behaviour, it’s just that the size and stupidity of the mobs has become staggeringly huge.

I agree with the wisdom of not restoring damaged works.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 13:15:45
 
RobF

Posts: 951
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Or do you make the tortilla in your underwear, as in use the underwear as a mold for the tortilla?


That’s closer to the concept...except it’s just pretend. I don’t think there’s a real need to dump broken eggs and oil cooked potatoes down one’s skivvies or anything...You see, Piwin is just acting like his underwear is the mixing bowl, and has turned it into a dance. I realize it’s a kind of disturbing image and I don’t know why he does this stuff...joy of life, I guess.


*edit* Geez, I hadn’t thought about the possibility it involved cooking at one’s stove while wearing only underwear. Yeah, maybe that’s it...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 13:22:45
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12682
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

You guys are missing the point- the cancellation culture isn’t about people who hold power through an office, it’s the massing of individuals should don’t have power to rightly of wrongly assign judgement.

Specifically the problem in the US is about race


That first sentence “should don’t” I guess you mean should “not”? I still don’t get the difference. Sorry if wiki thinks they have the idea, but I don’t see how the situation is different. A school board made of the same type of people as those with cell phones that are empowered in a different way. And the problem is not only “race’”, it’s tons of stuff like sex, gender, political stance, hats, pants, language....you name it, but it is “behavior”. The judgement going on is about people’s known behavior, or a single instance of their behavior at least. A dead president’s slave owner ship, a guy in a coffee shop wearing a funny hat, a store clerk refusing to serve, a lady walking a dog, a wrongly used pronoun, offensive joke or language, a governors flirtation, etc etc etc.... Meanwhile, A holes are still getting away with crime all over the place on Earth. The focus is getting blown out of proportion from the larger picture and context. The direction it is going is not good regardless.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 13:42:12
 
Piwin

Posts: 3164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to RobF

quote:

I don’t know why he does this stuff.


It's because during my first stay in Spain I dated erm, let's say a perroflauta-adjacent girl. The idea is that you go to your tiny narrow kitchen, which is of course filthy and smells like dog and marijuana, put this on:



sing along while cooking a tortilla and drinking whatever bits and pieces of alcohol are still lying around. The underwear is to mimic the CD jacket of course. It has to be white, and preferably stained. Besides. Clothes. So bourgeois.

It's a perfectly rational thing to do. I don't see the problem. ^^

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 13:49:07
 
Piwin

Posts: 3164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

None of this should be confused with despots carrying out state approved violence, or violent vigilante street killings.


Yeah, that makes sense.

Beyond that, I'm also honestly just surprised that Fluknu is afraid of it here in Europe. Dunno. Different interpretations of the facts I guess. But I look around me, and yeah, what I'm seeing is that the French left is in tatters, as it is also in several other European countries. Those of us who are desperately trying to stop the tide of rising nationalism are failing to do so, so I just don't get how someone would be afraid of the left here right now. I guess we're just not reading the situation in the same way, at all. I mean, we're on a losing streak here that doesn't look like it's going to end any time soon.

If you want to place a bet on it Fluknu , let's come back to this thread in 15 years and I'll bet you a home-made underwear-tortilla (lol) that the far-right is in power in France. And if they're not, it'll only be because a centre-right party has adopted far-right policies on several key issues. That's my guess at where we're heading. I'm such an optimist lol. But dunno. Totalitarian commie Europe just doesn't seem like a real threat to me at all. On the other hand, Europe collapsing into right-wing ethnonationalism does seem in the realm of possibilities to me, and I can very well imagine people of that kind of leaning then looking at the violations of fundamental rights they've in effect supported and saying "look what you made me do".

@Ricardo
quote:

pants


uh oh. I might be in trouble.

Damn it. Now I want my flamenco name to be "Tortilla no-pants". I'm gonna start trying to plant that idea into people's head here and hope it catches on.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 15:05:37
 
RobF

Posts: 951
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

quote:

Damn it. Now I want my flamenco name to be "Tortilla no-pants".

Everybody's doin' a brand new dance, now
(Come on baby, do the tortilla-undee)
I know you'll get to like it if you give it a chance, now
(Come on baby, do the tortilla-no-pants)

C’mon baby, do the tortilla-undee with me....

You gotta swing your hips now
Come on baby, jump up, jump back
Well, I think you got the knack, ohh

So come on, come on, do the tortilla-undee with me

(There’s even room for Palmas in this song, although I don’t think we’re allowed to use lyrics like that anymore...)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 15:56:00
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1629
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to RobF

quote:


Everybody's doin' a brand new dance, now


Funny!!! This is one of my wife´s favourite songs and she doesn´t even speak English
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 16:06:03
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3146
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to RobF

quote:

Is this “making a tortilla in your underwear” some kind of dance or something?


My fantasy is to eat an enchilada made by Tina Turner where she turns the tortilla into a wrap by rolling it on her thigh.

(Oops, did I just open myself up to being "canceled"?)

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 16:44:59
 
Piwin

Posts: 3164
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to RobF

quote:

I don’t think we’re allowed to use lyrics like that anymore...


You are, but only when making a tortilla in underwear. The rest of the time you should be cleansing your soul with this:



Sorry, I don't make the rules.

Of course, if Tina Turner comes over while you're making a tortilla, you should probably put some pants on, at least when you open the door.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 18:54:27
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1722
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

quote:

The rest of the time you should be cleansing your soul with this:


I’ve always loved that story*.

*“It was composed during the reign of Pope Urban VIII, probably during the 1630s, for the exclusive use of the Sistine Chapel […]

“[…] fourteen-year-old Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart was visiting Rome when he first heard the piece during the Wednesday service. Later that day, he wrote it down entirely from memory, returning to the Chapel that Friday to make minor corrections.”
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2021 21:57:07
 
ernandez R

Posts: 354
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: What do you mean, 'Who's the aut... (in reply to Piwin

Beans, Tortillas, Tina Turner's thighs...?

Now we're talking, must be why grandma ernandez always called Grandpa, dirty old man. His name was Mosses, thank the Catholic orphanage he was delivered to, but I never heard his wife call him anything else. She would be frying up some pinto beans in the morning bacon fat and flipping out these little flower tortillas, crack a few eggs in the same crackling black frying pan while dicing up some roasted Anaheim chillies... All before most mortals where astir. Theirs had been a dairy family and the habits died hard, not sure when it happened but one day I noticed the tortillas came out of a package and where thin, I also noticed Grandpa was putting butter on them, he called them turkeys and it was an old family joke buried along with his smile and the sparkle my Grandma, Terisa, would have in her eye when she said, get to the table, dirty old man...

Any man who said he would not eat grated cheese off of Tina Turner's thighs is lying to you or himself and if he is not he should be in an institution where he can hurt no one.

Change your shorts for dogs sake Amigo, or go commando!

HR

ps. Where was Gondor when the west ford fell?

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2021 0:10:35
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