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rombsix

Posts: 7443
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

Stock market and cryptocurrency 

I've been doing a lot of work on the personal finance aspect of my life. Doctors don't learn squat in medical school or training about how to properly manage money. I've been trying to remedy my total ignorance.

Also, as part of the MBA mentality, I'm starting to look into the stock market and cryptocurrencies, but I'm still a total novice.

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2021 19:06:22
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2982
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to rombsix

With your timeline, the conventional stock market wisdom of index funds would appear to make sense. A good inoculation against widely held but invalid beliefs is "Fooled by Randomness" by Nassim Nicholas Taleb.

In 2007 I was 70 years old. House prices started to level off from their climb into the bubble zone. Thanks to discussions with sophisticated friends, a market downturn was foreseeable, though trying to "time the market" is not wise. I was completely out of the stock market by mid-2008. This makes it sound like a cool calculated decision, but the fact is, I was getting cold feet.

The crash occurred, not too long after I fled. The financial carnage of late 2008 exceeded everything that just about anybody had anticipated.

I have not owned a publicly traded share since mid-2008.

The stock market was good to me while i was in it. By sitting it out since then I have left a substantial sum of money on the table. But I have enough to be comfortable, and I sleep well at night.

If at your age someone had predicted I would have as much money as I do now, I wouldn't have believed it. If they had predicted how much, but that I wouldn't feel any richer than I do, I wouldn't have believed it either.

Good luck...

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2021 20:12:17
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3107
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to rombsix

Ramzi,

In my opinion, you cannot go wrong by investing long-term in the stock market or in mutual funds that deal in growth stocks. Find a reputable financial adviser to guide you in choice of stocks or mutual funds to invest in. When you think you have a good mix, stick with it. Do not try and "play" the market. Invest for the long-term. And don't lose your nerve during the inevitable downturn of the market. It is bound to happen, but the worst thing you can do is "buy high and sell low." Historically, stocks and stock mutual funds have always bounced back from a downturn and reached even greater heights.

Regarding cryptocurrency, my advice would be don't touch it. Cryptocurrency is a relatively new concept and is totally "on line" so to speak. Bitcoin is at an astronomical height right now, but it and other cryptocurrencies are extremely volatile. they can lose hundreds, even thousands, of dollars in a very short time. And there is no regulation, government or otherwise, of cryptocurrencies. Apparently some businesses are beginning to think about accepting cryptocurrency. I saw where Elon Musk and Tesla may be thinking of accepting cryptocurrency as payment. I wouldn't touch cryptocurrency until and unless it achieves a long, stable record and there is regulation of the market.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2021 20:19:42
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1553
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to rombsix

I sold and bought stocks for more than 25 years.
Sold all my stocks a few years ago. Now I have gold and bitcoin.
The world have borrowed too much, and the stocks will come down hard I think.
When the stocks collaps, I will sell the gold and buy stocks again.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2021 22:28:26
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12546
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to rombsix

Can someone explain to me why it’s not all just called “gambling”?

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2021 23:30:23
 
davewphx

Posts: 51
Joined: Jul. 11 2011
 

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to rombsix

Ramzi your money may be cursed, send it to me and I will bless it for you.

_____________________________

Dave
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 22 2021 23:59:39
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1553
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to Ricardo

@ Ricardo, Having actual money is allready gambling.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2021 0:18:41
 
Piwin

Posts: 3066
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to rombsix

Easy:

1. Buy a stock/crypto at random
2. Become friends with Elon Musk
3. Ask him to pull one of his usual how-the-hell-is-he-still-not-in-jail pump-and-dumps on the stock/crypto you bought.
4. Wait during the pump, sell early in the dump.
5. You are now rich.
6. Write a book about how you got there through sheer grit and perseverance. Preferably include quotes from dead Roman or Chinese dudes.
7. Buy me that Lester Devoe you owe me.
8. Send all your money to davewphx so he can un-curse it for you.
9. Ask davewphx to send me half of it so I can do a double un-cursing on it (you can never be too cautious).
10. Wait for davewphx and me to send your money back.
11. Wait longer.
12. Wait some more.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2021 13:09:08
 
rombsix

Posts: 7443
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to Piwin

quote:

Easy:

1. Buy a stock/crypto at random
2. Become friends with Elon Musk
3. Ask him to pull one of his usual how-the-hell-is-he-still-not-in-jail pump-and-dumps on the stock/crypto you bought.
4. Wait during the pump, sell early in the dump.
5. You are now rich.
6. Write a book about how you got there through sheer grit and perseverance. Preferably include quotes from dead Roman or Chinese dudes.
7. Buy me that Lester Devoe you owe me.
8. Send all your money to davewphx so he can un-curse it for you.
9. Ask davewphx to send me half of it so I can do a double un-cursing on it (you can never be too cautious).
10. Wait for davewphx and me to send your money back.
11. Wait longer.
12. Wait some more.


Well 12 is my favorite number, so you may be onto something, there...

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2021 15:55:11
 
JasonM

Posts: 1528
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to rombsix

My friend made 10k with the whole GameStop fiasco, and my sisters husband lost 10k in crypto. It’s all gambling!

I’ve been learning about algorithmic trading this year, plus I’m in school for data science. Might create a bot to gamble my money for me.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2021 19:57:37
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1553
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to rombsix

The only real advise I can give you is this.

ETF’s are the cheapest and easiest to deal with for a private person.
Buy and hold strategy is the best for your nightrest. (You can never beat the market).

So what to do.
Take three EFT’s, for instance the Dow Jones, the Dax (German) and the shanghai.
Take the money you can miss easily, split it in three parts and invest the one thirth in time of a correction in all three the indexes.
This way you spread your money easily.
If it goes down, use the second third to invest in the same index, etc.

Now you have after a while a nice basket stocks all over the world and you can wait and see what happens.
I think this is the most save, cheapest, and worryless way of trading and it is not very time consuming.

A side note:
Investigation shows that investing in yourself is the most profitable ever.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 23 2021 20:06:26
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2982
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Stock market and cryptocurrency (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Can someone explain to me why it’s not all just called “gambling”?


If you play the games in a casino, you are very likely to lose money over the long run. The odds are stacked against you. If you shoot craps with your friends, you are likely to break even in the long run, if you don't go broke first. If you play poker with your friends, the outcome hinges on the distribution of skill among the group. Poker is called gambling, but it is in fact a game of skill.

Why would the stock market not just be called "gambling"? Because in the stock market, in the long run you will make money if you play it right. Here's a chart the illustrates that.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1324/s-p-500-earnings-history

The S&P 500 is a list of publicly traded stocks selected to cover a wide number of industrial areas. The blue line is the S&P 500 price (vertical axis on the left). The orange line is the average earnings per share for the S&P (axis on the right). The price of the S&P closely parallels the earnings per share.

OK, so they went up. Why did they do that, and why are they likely to continue?

I'm no expert, but Warren Buffett, who is an expert, says the answer is increasing productivity. I read this to mean that he thinks increasing productivity is the main driver of the stock market's upward trend.

There are a lot of different measures of productivity, but let's look at one, non-farm productivity. To calculate this you survey non-farm industries. You record the value O of its outputs and the cost of its inputs I. O-I is the added value. You divide this by the number H of hours worked. Productivity P = (O-I)/H. P is a measure of the efficiency of the industry. The more money you make per hour worked, the higher the value of P.

Here's a chart of the history of P.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/productivity

Joint stock companies sell shares of stock to raise money. When you buy a share, you own a piece of the company. The company uses the money to pay for facilities, research...things to make money with. When the company makes more money per hour worked, you get more bang for your buck. Companies become more efficient in a variety of ways. Big ways include advances in technology and more efficient organization. Warren Buffett (him again) points out that people today aren't smarter than they were in 1920, nor do they work harder per hour. But the accumulated value of the advancement of business culture-including technology and organization-has driven the rise in productivity.

Playing the stock market short term is gambling. Trying to pick stocks or timing the market short term are losing games, relative to the S&P 500. But if you invest in a broadly diverse portfolio and hold for years, you are betting on the continued advance of at least one element of civilization.

You can buy exchange traded funds whose investment strategy is for each share to parallel the S&P 500, or other market indicators.

So far, so good.

But, as I said, once I had made my stake, I got out. I don't regret the money I have passed up over the last 10 or 12 years. I have enough. I sleep well at night.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2021 4:27:04
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