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Which medium helps you learn a new piece quicker and with better retention ?
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joevidetto
Posts: 191
Joined: Jun. 15 2013
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 RE: Which medium helps you learn a n... (in reply to joevidetto)
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quote:
Thought this was about remembering how to execute... my bad
I combined this into the thread - appreciate your input.
Everybody is at a different level musically, and everybody develops different ways of learning and memorizing.
Of course having all types of materials is best - the more different ways you come at the same information, the more it connects together and gels into your memory. My feeling is if you had to pick one, and you are an intermediate player or above (already have some knowledge of reading and analyzing) - then no doubt for me video with a slow-downer.
I use Transcribe - which does both audio and video, and for a guy whose "natural- genetic-musical-talent" I would rate as mild to moderate, with mediocre ear and moderate ability to find exact harmonies and really fast melodies on the fretboard - Transcribe is a game-changer. Without it, I couldn't have learned many of the things I wanted to.
In terms of learning quickly - nothing beats video. If you have developed sight reading to the point of fluency of "look and play" exactly what's there within a couple of hours, even a couple of days - for complicated PDL transcriptions, then you might make the case that the notation can be a great medium. Actually - if you can do this - please let me know. I might want to take some lessons from you : )
Also - it's a lofty term - but mirror neurons in the brain are incredibly important to learning new skills - and that requires visual information.
Finally - video is the closest thing to having a live human being teach you to do something the correct way. That's why the guys from Spainborn into a musical family are some of the best players. I recently discovered a bluegrass family I really enjoy watching - and I learned that they don't read music. IMHO - learning directly from others trumps everything else - except when it comes to sophisticated composition - then the theory is important - unless you are a prodigy that has practiced for 10's to 100's of thousands of hours - we don't have too many of those.
For flamenco at least - if you are at best a novice reader of notation - thing about how much brain energy goes into translating a note from the staff into the correct position and fingering on the guitar (and many times in flamenco transcriptions the fingerings are incorrect). When you learn directly from others teaching you - or the next best thing, from a video (that you can slow down) - ALL that 'conversion' brain energy goes into learning and memorizing the music and EXACTLY how to play it - which is really the end goal anyway.
So - instead of buying a Leiva book - I would gladly pay the cost of a book for a person that could show me even ONE of the more complicated post-Alomraima Paco pieces on a recorded video lesson, from beginning to end, within one to two guitar lessons. Flamenco guitar players haven't had enough time to learn and digest his "newer" stuff (which is already how many years old ?). Actually that's not entirely true - some play pieces from Zyrab and Solo Quiero...but Luzia and Cositas I think much less. Now the modern "older" stuff - we are all fortunate to have lots of players posting FREE videos with good shots of their hands. I wonder what it's like to be born into the age of having all of the current stuff we have today - at the age of 10 or 11. The learning process must be very different for these students than it was for me (at 54). - I paid a LOT of money in lessons, and it took me MANY years - just to play a FEW complete pieces from Paco's early reportoire (most from Fantasia, or Fuente). Granted Fauche has been around for years, but I needed far more face-to-face to learn flamenco techniques and theory before I could be productive with an audio and Fauche transcription. Now - at 54, having all these great resources, I'm hoping my learning can really accelerate - assuming I can stick with flamenco for a few years in a row. In the past - got incredibly frustrated at some points and went back to classic pop and rock.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 10 2021 13:54:47
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Which medium helps you learn a n... (in reply to joevidetto)
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quote:
For flamenco at least - if you are at best a novice reader of notation - thing about how much brain energy goes into translating a note from the staff into the correct position and fingering on the guitar (and many times in flamenco transcriptions the fingerings are incorrect). When you learn directly from others teaching you - or the next best thing, from a video (that you can slow down) - ALL that 'conversion' brain energy goes into learning and memorizing the music and EXACTLY how to play it - which is really the end goal anyway.
You seem to think each “piece” is like a brand new thing. There are structures and standard grips and devices that if learned via short simple falsetas, it becomes quite easy to learn new material quickly. You must have seen the video I posted about learning Tomatito falseta in 8 minutes. My example worked for that guy...but what you don’t realize is I made that video because of a challenge here on foro. The somebody was arguing about learning method, and I said “pick a falseta I don’t know”...he chose tomatito from encuentro...I got score, watched the video, sang along with it, read through the score to get the basic fingerings that I already saw on video....but my concern was mainly compas. I basically memorized the fingering from the book in a couple minutes then set out to actually “learn” it properly by chunking each beat...I keep the foot going and don’t add notes until I have two beats back to back felt correctly. I didn’t know how long it would take...so I filmed myself learning it. It happened to be 8 minutes. If you wanted an entire piece you have to multiply that process (30 minutes watching and getting fingering, 8 minutes to ingrain it) so say 40 minutes total, by the number of falsetas in the piece. Usually 5 or so.
But if you have not learned some basic grips and devices used in flamenco guitar, you can learn things wrong and then spend the rest of your life unlearning the bad habits. I think what is important is how to “practice”, not the media you think will magically make your life easy.
Here you can see how it played out with time stamps
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=136277&p=16&tmode=1&smode=1
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Feb. 11 2021 0:21:25
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