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PDL chart - key, cejilla, tuning
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joevidetto
Posts: 191
Joined: Jun. 15 2013
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 RE: PDL chart - key, cejilla, tuning (in reply to joevidetto)
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quote:
I made a chart for the Rondeña “Camaron” on the album luzia. Mainly I just wanted to get a handle on what is happening harmonically in that exotic piece.
Wow - that's a generous share. Did you figure that one out by ear ?
When I wrote the word 'chart' - I actually meant table, but I'm glad you took it and responded with that chart.
For me, when I want to memorize a piece, I really need some type of chart or notes. I will find one or 2 of my own and share - and ask that perhaps some of our other members would do the same - even if it's crytpic and not yet perfectly presentable.
I find it interesting that many flamenco transcriptions do not put the chords on top, which could be really useful for those that want to understand the piece harmonically. In some pieces - there is a second guitar, and there is no reason for them not do do so imho. But for those that don't have a second guitar - well that is a bit trickier and you would need much more experience to figure them out. Though most people that can transcribe at that level certainly could have added those chords if they wanted to (yes - I know, with publishers it's about get something, anything, out asap)
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Date Jan. 31 2021 22:55:11
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Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: PDL chart - key, cejilla, tuning (in reply to joevidetto)
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Got it sorry, I read “chart” and thought oh yes I have one 
Let’s see.
Tajo (Rondeña tuning DADF#BE capo 2? C# phrygian).
mi inspiracion (drop D, D major and D minor silencio)
Mantilla de Féria (DGDGBE capo 2? Key of G major and G phrygian)
Doblan companas (Rondeña capo 2)
Farruca de Lucia (Drop D, D minor)
Canastera (Rondeña capo 3?)
Cueva del Gato (Rondeña capo 3)
Cobre (sevillanas multi tracked using Drop D in Dmajor, D minor and Rondeña again, each one is different key if I recall)
Solo quiero caminar (drop D D phrygian por abajo)
Monestario de sal (drop D, D major but it modulates a lot).
Piñonate (drop A,ADGAD capo 4 por medio).
Cañada (same as above)
Mi niño Curro (Rondeña capo 2, live capo 1)
Amazingly Zyryab is all standard tuning
Camaron (Rondeña)
El Tesorillo (same as Piñonate and Cañada, capo 5).
Second guitar on Volar uses drop C# for C# phrygian.
Seems he was more into alternate tunings in his youth during the traditional period. Mantilla de Féria is by Esteban de Sanlucar. The drop A tuning is probably inspired by McLaughlin who liked to do that for his solo feature with the Trio. Ramon Montoya is attributed to creating the Rondeña, a form Paco clearly loved to work with since his youth.
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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Feb. 1 2021 2:10:21
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kitarist
Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
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RE: PDL chart - key, cejilla, tuning (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
Cobre (sevillanas multi tracked using Drop D in Dmajor, D minor and Rondeña again, each one is different key if I recall)
Sevillana 1: D major, drop D, capo on 2
Sevillana 2: por rondena, DADF#BE, capo on 3
Sevillana 3: D minor, drop D, capo on 2
Sevillana 4: (por medio), capo on 4.
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Konstantin
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Date Feb. 2 2021 19:42:34
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ernandez R
Posts: 737
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA
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RE: PDL chart - key, cejilla, tuning (in reply to joevidetto)
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Slightly off topic: what is the history of the cejilla in Flamenco, I've not even one in any historical photos, could be I was not looking.
Heard someone joke about a ballpoint pen and rubberbands and I tried it. Don't laugh. Next day im out to the shop and cut up a little piece of hickory on the band saw, drilled holes first for hooks, see foto, then used a few hair ties cause that's what was handy. About four minutes, not having any leather glued on some scrap cork but saw old glove with ripped seam as I was walking out the shop door. Next time. Not really practical course it took four fresh hair ties but it works well enough for now.
HR
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I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.
www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
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Date Feb. 2 2021 22:16:10
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kitarist
Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
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RE: PDL chart - key, cejilla, tuning (in reply to ernandez R)
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quote:
Slightly off topic: what is the history of the cejilla in Flamenco, I've not even one in any historical photos, could be I was not looking.
Consensus is late 1700s; design same as it's always been. Same timing with the English yoke version of capo.
Some early cejillas: http://www.sternercapo.se/Capomuseum/Strap/Nonelastic/nonelast.htm
Capo = Capo tasto = head fret. Originally referring to what we now call the nut.
First documented uttering of that word - in 1640 by Giovanni Battista Doni in his treatise "Annotazioni sopra il Compendio del Trattato de' generi e de' modi della musica".
BTW this is the same dude who is said to have cleverly changed the solfege syllable for 'C' from 'Ut' to 'Do', claiming it stands for 'Dominus' and that it is more musical to pronounce. His contemporaries suspected the real reason was that it was short for 'Doni', his family name. (Though Doni refers to 'C' as 'Ut' here. Also, apparently the use of the syllable "do" is already attested in 1536 (long before the birth of Doni) in a text by Pietro Aretino). Doni died in 1647, seven years after the publication of 'Annotazioni'.
So in that 1640 book, while 'capotasto' is used to refer to the nut, the book does refer to a 'tastino' as in a little fret, seemingly meaning a movable fret, and there is a drawing of it, for an eight-string bass violon fretted instrument - the design even has a couple of flippable stops so the strings underneath can ring at their original pitch with the capo on, if desired:
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Konstantin
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Date Feb. 3 2021 0:33:51
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