The average duration of cante in general and for each palo (over time)

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

The average duration of cante in gen...

I want to ask questions regarding the following 2 points.

(1)
What I noticed is that older cante recordings (let's say from 1900 to 1960) are shorter than newer ones (from 1980 until now).
I would estimate the average length of older cantes is 2-3 minutes. Nowadays if you listen to cante they're usually longer I would say 3-6 minutes.
What do you think are the reasons for this?
I also want to know if there's been a steady increase in the duration over time or if there was a leap somewhere in the 80's or 90's because of some historical event or a influential flamenco cante album.

I don't know if it's true for each palo. Anyhow, I want to discuss this for each palo as well.

(2)
Are there any differences in the duration between palos? Which palo lasts longer and why?

Please note that we're talking flamenco cante here. Not about solo flamenco.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2021 14:13:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The average duration of cante in... (in reply to devilhand)

Assuming you know what a metronome is for, the answer is tempo. The tempo has slowed down. With the decrease of the metronome marking you have an INCREASE of the time it takes to get through a piece of music. This was done deliberately by dancers for drama. Now we have to deal with it. Diego del Gastor also played some slow dramatic guitar but I dont’ consider him influential on the cante the way baile was.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2021 23:53:02

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: The average duration of cante in... (in reply to devilhand)

From 1900 to about 1952 most cante recordings were on 10-inch (25cm) 78 rpm discs, which had a maximum recording time around 3 minutes. When the 33 1/3 rpm vinyl LPs became available, much longer recording times were practical.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2021 0:28:27

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: The average duration of cante in... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

From 1900 to about 1952 most cante recordings were on 10-inch (25cm) 78 rpm discs, which had a maximum recording time around 3 minutes.

That was my first thought too. Argentine tango length (records) had the same relationship to recording media.

_____________________________

Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2021 5:08:15

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: The average duration of cante in... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

From 1900 to about 1952 most cante recordings were on 10-inch (25cm) 78 rpm discs, which had a maximum recording time around 3 minutes. When the 33 1/3 rpm vinyl LPs became available, much longer recording times were practical.

quote:

That was my first thought too.

And mine, sometimes you get a track where the guitarist plays a falseta at the end of the track, after the last letra, I guess to fill up the remaining space on the recording.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2021 18:08:06

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: The average duration of cante in... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

It is a nice try guys, but false equivalence.

Vs. the longer track same type of cante:

Point being the type of media have no bearing if the cantes are performed in a similar fashion...ie, the number of cantes and falsetas and the speed at which they are executed. An overall sampling would show that Solea’s come in 3s, malaguena or levante in 2s, etc...so why the general increase in playback time? The slower delivery is the main cause. And there, the idea that old cantaores were “racing against the media clock” doesn’t hold water, because they could simply decrease the number of cantes performed if going slow were the thing the wanted to do like they do today.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2021 18:36:29

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: The average duration of cante in... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

It is a nice try guys

_____________________________

Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2021 18:52:07

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: The average duration of cante in... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

From 1900 to about 1952 most cante recordings were on 10-inch (25cm) 78 rpm discs, which had a maximum recording time around 3 minutes. When the 33 1/3 rpm vinyl LPs became available, much longer recording times were practical.

RNJ

Thanks for the information. Just learnt something new. I wonder if this limited artistic freedom of both tocaors and cantaors. As a consequence we got shorter falsetas or letras etc.

My first thought was after flamenco got exposed to different music genres, in particular to jazz, cante accompaniment started to use more sophisticated chords and chord changes which led to a longer accompaniment in the later decades.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 30 2021 14:44:20