Great cantaores

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Great cantaores

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Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

Great cantaores

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2021 16:35:40

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to Morante)

Olé!

I'd sh1t my pants if I had to accompany those two.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2021 19:34:50

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

Olé!

I'd sh1t my pants if I had to accompany those two.

I had the chance to play for Agujeta’s brother Diego twice. The first time I was a green newb and didn’t know much. He asked me to play solea and I started playing solea por Arriba and he starts singing por medio. LOL. He kept going as i found the capo position. Next the guy started the letras on count 7 and I was like WTF. It was a wonderful lesson in the sense I realized playing for cante is NOT like playing for baile (the only thing I had really done seriously by 2004 with all the cantaores I had played for doing nice neat cuadrao stuff). My meeting with him 5 years later went quite differently, and I had a chance to not only redeem myself but the guy generously sang for like 3 hours, just me and him. Solea, siguiriyas, Romances, bulerias and fandangos....on and on and on. He was very much copying the style of his brother, but with the exception he very much enjoyed bulerias.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 23 2021 23:45:06

mrstwinkle

Posts: 551
Joined: May 14 2017

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to Morante)

Not sure how to assess 'great'. Other than - I like the sound / how it affects ME. So El Torta and Indio Gitano in my world beat Camaron. And I love Camaron. Even though I know you can produce 100 pieces of legitimate evidence to prove I'm wrong.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2021 16:38:02

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to mrstwinkle)

quote:

I know you can produce 100 pieces of legitimate evidence to prove I'm wrong.

Correct.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 24 2021 16:44:23

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to Ricardo)

Kudos man. Gives me hope. OK, maybe in my case it'll have to be closer to 15 years than 5, but poco a poco...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2021 9:35:08

Guest

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 20 2021 10:13:28

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2021 10:08:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rasqeo77

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

I know you can produce 100 pieces of legitimate evidence to prove I'm wrong.

Correct.

Incorrect. Since he is talking about his subjective taste, which can not be proven wrong.

Actually the question was about HOW to assess what is “great” about a singer. The idea that it is only about what you “like” or not is actually the shallow one. We could objectively compare singers technical abilities regarding pitch accuracy, adherence to canon, innovative alterations, etc. I can personally admit there are singers doing the right thing and can serve as a model for study, that I don’t actually “like” or prefer to listen to for enjoyment only. Case no 1. Antonio Mairena. If you want to understand a specific cante you need to check mairena’s version. I prefer Caracol but he is not a good model because he was extremely personally innovative. Hope that makes sense.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2021 14:13:17

joevidetto

Posts: 191
Joined: Jun. 15 2013

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Case no 1. Antonio Mairena. If you want to understand a specific cante you need to check mairena’s version.

What makes one singer's cante so much more informative than another's ? And what other 4 canators would you recommend listening to to "understand a specific cante" - is understanding the cante related to understanding the form ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2021 14:58:04

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to joevidetto)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2021 16:19:39

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to joevidetto)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joevidetto

quote:

Case no 1. Antonio Mairena. If you want to understand a specific cante you need to check mairena’s version.

What makes one singer's cante so much more informative than another's ? And what other 4 canators would you recommend listening to to "understand a specific cante" - is understanding the cante related to understanding the form ?

A place to start would be the opposite approach...check a specific cante as interpreted by different singers and then decide, perhaps which singer you feel is making things clear or understandable, if not enjoyable. Look for example:

http://canteytoque.es/soleares.htm#joaquin

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2021 18:09:34

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I had the chance to play for Agujeta’s brother Diego twice. The first time I was a green newb and didn’t know much.... My meeting with him 5 years later went quite differently, and I had a chance to not only redeem myself but the guy generously sang for like 3 hours, just me and him.

What did you do in those 5 years that made the difference?

I bet I'm not the only one curious about that!

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 25 2021 22:07:25

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Great cantaores (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

I had the chance to play for Agujeta’s brother Diego twice. The first time I was a green newb and didn’t know much.... My meeting with him 5 years later went quite differently, and I had a chance to not only redeem myself but the guy generously sang for like 3 hours, just me and him.

What did you do in those 5 years that made the difference?

I bet I'm not the only one curious about that!

Well the main thing was I got the complete collection of Rito y Geografia which started to alter my perception of what “singing in compas” actually meant historically. The general understanding before that, and it came from advanced dancers that were in the position to hire singers and myself, is that there was an “orthodox way” to sing, and this was revealed in the letras of the baile. Singers that got crossed were problematic and viewed as “wrong” and simply ignorant of compas. The “good” singers had to have been ones that knew how to “sing in compas” plain and simple. Certain older cantaores were thought having “loose compas” because they were literally “old” and must have forgotten how to do it.

Going through the entire rito collection suddenly, painfully, changed my view of the whole enterprise and made me really want to go back to spain (back in time for that matter) and find Diego and have a do over. During that time I was lucky to have encounters with many different cantaores and with my new outlook it was quite an enjoyable journey. Since my 2009 encounter with Diego I have learned tons more, and it is quite sad to notice the quick decline of the great type of singers Morante often points us to. A dying breed and it is a shame. I guess I carry a bit of resentment toward the world of baile because of my personal experiences, and maybe that is not fair, but it is the way I see it now.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 26 2021 2:24:01