Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira and Philip John Lee who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Original design - based on 1850’s to Jaleo painting era   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

Original design - based on 1850’s ... 

I designed a small body guitar based on mid 19th century sizes and look. I studied photos of guitars by Torres, Pernas, later 19th century Spanish work from Andalusia and Madrid. Plus looked at Benedid in Cadiz and as many others as I could.
Rather than make exact copies of a particular guitar I opted for an original design based around the guitars of that day. I find exact copies or bench copies to be difficult mainly because I can’t get a good model to study long enough. Ideally I’d like to study a guitar for several weeks in order to copy it.

But I have seen enough guitars from this time period in person to be able to use the methods and aesthetic awareness of this time period. I know they often used discarded mill ends and odd wood for making thin liners, and that the transition carving, evident also in photos, between the neck and headstock is different than how we do it today, etc. I compiled a mental list of period details and designed as if I were just another maker in that era seeing the guitars around me. I tried to forget modern guitars while designed it. And didn’t use items like premade liners and did use tools like toothed planes.

Here are some photos of one of them-







Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (3)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 2 2020 1:36:10
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

640 scale
Indian rosewood- spruce top- maple lines in rosette and maple binding.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 2 2020 1:38:10
 
RobF

Posts: 947
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

Really nice! I like it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 2 2020 2:58:16
 
davewphx

Posts: 51
Joined: Jul. 11 2011
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

Beautiful Stephen. Can you tell us the approx dimensions? It has a baroque quality I think.

_____________________________

Dave
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 2 2020 19:01:40
 
ernandez R

Posts: 351
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

I’ve built a parlor loosely based on the ‘63 Torres Brune wrote up in Vintage Guitar magazine. Not as nice or fancy as yours Stephan but still surprisingly nice tonally.
For some reason I made the scale 23” instead of the original 25”, brain fart I suppose?
I found the third string, the G, is a little funky with a hint of ukalalie.
Just now finishing up the second one and might have the strings on her sans shellac tomorrow morning.
They really are a perfect size for kicking back feet up and the sound is surprisingly full, the shorter scale means first position finger stretch cords come easier if it is a little tight toward the twelfth fret.
I too have been tempted to mimic the early Torres style head stock, I don’t care for the later tombstone style, perhaps a slight variation.
I do find your fretboard extension over the sound hole aesthetically incongruent but that’s just a matter of personal taste.
I believe this is your second or third of this size and after playing her some are there any changes you have considered for the next? My goal is to get daringly close to the original lightly braced and thinness of Torres’ structure but getting there a little at a time: one back brace, no tone bars, and .8mm ribs takes bravery if not total madness!

HR



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 2 2020 20:19:54
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to davewphx

Yeah I’m busy now, but I’ll get back to you with thoughts

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 3 2020 2:43:06
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

I read a lot of material like this Vintage Guitar essay by Brune’ about the 1863 instrument with the non Three Hills headstock

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www.vintageguitar.com/3434/antonio-de-torres-1863/amp/

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 3 2020 6:43:28
 
JasonM

Posts: 1565
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

Is this one of dem der backpackin’ geetars?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 3 2020 15:35:58
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to JasonM

No it’s not a backpacking guitar. It’s a real concert intended instrument. It’s a period piece covering that time from 1840’s to early 20th century when a tournavoz may have been used. And the music would be mostly stuff like Tarrega and his many seldom talk about contemporaries. Or without the tournavoz ( I would reckon) this is probably something that players that worked in flamenco and popular music would recognize as a common guitar.

It’s likely that before the Torres size guitar got wide attention that guitars like this were fairly normal and during the time Torres became more known late 19th century, this guitar remains on the scene. It’s a lot like what I imagine the guitars hanging in the back wall in the Jaleo painting were like. And if the tournavoz was not in this one, with a tap plate you could play this guitar in a cuadro today with no problem.

The first one I made on this plantilla was just under 3” thick, and thin cypress body, spruce top with five fans. It could be heard down the street. Small, flamenco sounding and LOUD



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 4 2020 1:30:16
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3306
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

It’s a lot like what I imagine the guitars hanging in the back wall in the Jaleo painting were like.

always wondered about the guitars in that picture.

The Vintage Guitar essay by Brune’ was interesting, thanks.

It's in no way a criticism, so pls don't be offended (and I realise from the article that it comes from Torres), but the headstock reminds me of Batman!

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 4 2020 8:56:53
 
estebanana

Posts: 7999
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to mark indigo

I’m not worried or offended it looks like Batman. I was offended and neurotic when another guitar maker in San Francisco said my old now disused headstock looked like that stupid Christian dove symbol. I changed it after that.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2020 0:33:01
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

Very interesting バナナサン。There are quite a few of these in the Evans book- this one in particular, though I think Panormo could change the headstock here - it looks a bit sus.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2020 20:35:25
 
ernandez R

Posts: 351
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to El Burdo

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Burdo

Very interesting バナナサン。There are quite a few of these in the Evans book- this one in particular, though I think Panormo could change the headstock here - it looks a bit sus.





And those mechanical tuners are for the weak...

Just made up a set of pegs for my latest "Veintitres" 23 inch scale. Not finished but I couldn't help splashing some linseed oil on them to get an idea how they would look and how much more I wanted to carve away.

A note about the Panormo guitar and my first guitar. I made the headstock out of Hickory, what the heck did I know, but what I've noticed is the vary dense, say less dampening material seems to have made a big difference in the tone. Please don't ask me for much more than that. My next guitar I intend to build the headstock out of Hickory again.

So i was surprised to read that Panormo was making his headstock out of maple and had to wonder if he preferred the sonic properties? Of course I'm using pegs.

HR



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2020 21:43:06
 
ernandez R

Posts: 351
Joined: Mar. 25 2019
From: Alaska USA

RE: Original design - based on 1850... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I’m not worried or offended it looks like Batman. I was offended and neurotic when another guitar maker in San Francisco said my old now disused headstock looked like that stupid Christian dove symbol. I changed it after that.


Stephan,
I feel like a total cop out with my chop saw flush headstock... was thinking less dove and more frog a la Rivera. I have a few sketches in a drawer somewhere...

HR

_____________________________

I prefer my flamenco guitar spicy,
doesn't have to be fast,
should have some meat on the bones,
can be raw or well done,
as long as it doesn't sound like it's turning green on an elevator floor.

www.instagram.com/threeriversguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2020 22:03:49
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.0625 secs.