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RE: What's up with this newfangled culture of "interpreting" others intrepretations?
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AndresK
Posts: 309
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece
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 RE: What's up with this newfangled c... (in reply to Ricardo)
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Now, that is an amazing way to help out discreetly someone in need. Ricardo, you set a great and difficult example here.
Thank you for reminding us.
I also had a guy back from my classical student years who was also a student at the conservatoire where I was learning classical guitar. He was playing whatever was coming to his head saying it was flamenco. I am never hard with people so he sent me some tracks of his, a couple of years back, asking my opinion. The trucks were named as buleria, tango etc. They had nothing to do with compas or even regular rhythm in any way. Having very much trouble trying to explain to him what was not exactly suited to call a piece bulerias, I ended up telling him to change the name of the pieces so he could post them on YouTube unharmed. So he could rename his "buleria" piece something else without the term buleria in it to avoid
teasing and taunts from people who might knew what the word buleria means.
He was always about composing his own staff and said he did not want to learn even basic scales, but use his own ideas.
Fortunately he avoided using the word buleria on his video.
Anyway, you get the point.
As for the initial post. You can think and complicate things as much as you want but I would advise to keep it simple. If you feel you want to play something already written by someone else just do it. If you do not want to, do that. Do not waste your time trying to justify your decision intellectually and convince everyone else to do the same. It is just as I might pick up the 7 string flamenco guitar and then say that everyone plays six string are outdated. You get it from here.. Just relax and enjoy the music.
Peace.
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Date Dec. 28 2020 8:35:11
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aaron peacock
Posts: 141
Joined: Apr. 26 2020
From: Portugal
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RE: What's up with this newfangled c... (in reply to Piwin)
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Ok, this has been cute and all, and it's been fun playing all innocent, but I'm Português and you can go look at a map and then kindly go service yourself before you try to tell me what flamenco is and isn't, you anglo-american gate-keeper wanna-be's saying things that will get you looked at like some francoist reactionary fossils in Spain.
"but my best friend is Spanish!" LOL...
Come to Spain and participate in living flamenco culture in the XXI century or try to tell them that they must respect YOUR rules.
Your first prophet Fava Boy taught himself from listening to the radio. You still did not listen, for your hearts were hard...
I don't see many Spaniards on here, nor much Japanese etc, hmmm
It's a circle-jerk and you know it. gloves off. take your condescending attitudes and put them somewhere the sun shineth not.
The truth is that the flamenco world speaks Spanish and you should dive into that world and stop making your separate little gated community with gatekeepers who have their head up their rears.
When I say "the flamenco world" I refer to the living breathing source of all that which you worship 10 years later. If you allowed for originality and bold originality, you could also participate in this living music.
There is plenty of improv in this flamenco world, Ricardo, so I'm sorry that you self-limit but it's not a truthful description of what happens in Spain.
I'm no expert, but I'm closer to the source than you are, and I can see with my own eyes that this cult of xenu is just another exercise in groupthink. goodBYE...
pity that Piwin couldn't read this and be properly insulted for once.
there, i've insulted all those who insist upon these gatekeeper foolish rules... like this silly thread where Demonhand asks if there truly is a prescribed order to palos in a juerga and all folks were leaping upon the ruse...If I show this thread to flamencos in Spain they will laugh at such silly formalisms.
It reminds me of a family I know that always cuts the roast in half before placing it in the oven, as grandmother always did.
When grandmother was asked why she did this, she said that her pan was always too small for the whole roast, hence cutting it in half.
They had forgotten the reason something was done and had gone off worshipping a formalism.
The tao is not the shape of yesterdays tao. The Spirit Moves.
Follow spirit or you are lost.
ok, sorry for lying about not posting again, but some smugness is insufferable
go on then, snark and tsk tsk away, I know what a damned Bulerias is and I like to go to Jerez and hear many at once in August, maybe see you there. Have fun arguing about how many angels fit on a pinhead.
The valuable threads on THIS forum appear to be the luthier threads, in which seriously amazing stuff challenges every level of thoughtful preparation and tricky woodworking technique I've ever seen before, pure porn! but I can browse that as a guest after I get kicked out here for finally insulting the moneychangers and publicans in the musical temple!
happy new year, and best of luck in the future.
_____________________________
List of Arts Where Experimentation is Dangerous:
1) Sword-Combat
2) Aerial Acrobatics
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Date Dec. 28 2020 13:21:05
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: What's up with this newfangled c... (in reply to aaron peacock)
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quote:
I'm Português and you can go look at a map and then kindly go service yourself before you try to tell me what flamenco is and isn't, you anglo-american gate-keeper wanna-be's
I dunno, your Wikipedia entry about yourself says you were born in San Francisco and raised in the California psychedelic scene, but all the links provided for reference are either dead or blind. Probably wanna update that, or maybe not.
Piwin is a linguist who lives in Madrid and, being half-French myself, I have no doubt about his Frenchiness, if that’s a word, because he behaves in a peculiar way only recognizable by other Frenchmen, and no, I’m not revealing what that is, it’s a national secret, passed on through the generations. He’s no Yank, is my point.
Ricardo is unapologetically American but he could easily hang with the pros in Spain, IMO, were he to move there. Morante, who is an Irish bloke living in Jerez, could attest to that. Anyone who’s been on here long enough knows that Morante speaks Spanish fluently, it’s pretty obvious he forgot how to speak the King’s English many years ago. When he speaks English, moths fly out of his mouth. When it’s Spanish, it’s generally bits of Tapas and Bull testicles. I’ve just been told elsewhere that I’m only capable of focusing on building Flamenco guitars to the point that I don’t even realize other instruments exist. So, I’m obviously some kind of expert, too, even though I’m not.
Nobody knows where devilhand comes from, but his good humour and unflagging devotion to driving Ricardo crazy gives him a place in all of our hearts. He actually asks really good questions.
I wish you no ill. I don’t think anyone on here does. The past year has been pretty hard for all and there’s no end in sight. I sincerely hope you take care and get through it OK. I hope that for all of us. Peace.
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Date Dec. 28 2020 16:31:37
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JasonM
Posts: 2052
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore
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RE: What's up with this newfangled c... (in reply to RobF)
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quote:
I dunno, your Wikipedia entry about yourself says you were born in San Francisco and raised in the California psychedelic scene, but all the links provided for reference are either dead or blind. Probably wanna update that, or maybe not.
Piwin is a linguist who lives in Madrid and, being half-French myself, I have no doubt about his Frenchiness, if that’s a word, because he behaves in a peculiar way only recognizable by other Frenchmen, and no, I’m not revealing what that is, it’s a national secret, passed on through the generations. He’s no Yank, is my point.
Ricardo is unapologetically American but he could easily hang with the pros in Spain, IMO, were he to move there. Morante, who is an Irish bloke living in Jerez, could attest to that. Anyone who’s been on here long enough knows that Morante speaks Spanish fluently, it’s pretty obvious he forgot how to speak the King’s English many years ago. When he speaks English, moths fly out of his mouth. When it’s Spanish, it’s generally bits of Tapas and Bull testicles. I’ve just been told elsewhere that I’m only capable of focusing on building Flamenco guitars to the point that I don’t even realize other instruments exist. So, I’m obviously some kind of expert, too, even though I’m not.
Nobody knows where devilhand comes from, but his good humour and unflagging devotion to driving Ricardo crazy gives him a place in all of our hearts. He actually asks really good questions.
I wish you no ill. I don’t think anyone on here does. The past year had been pretty hard for all and there’s no end in sight. I sincerely hope you take care and get through it OK. I hope that for all of us. Peace.
Olé
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Date Dec. 28 2020 17:14:00
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: What's up with this newfangled c... (in reply to Morante)
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quote:
Certainly not!!! Al pavo real. Just that I do not live nor want to live in Jerez
Haha. Good! I really only know my way around the Granada area, but I want to expand on that over the next few visits. Next trip, I’m going to spend some time in Almería talking about guitars and workshops with some of the people there. But, I really want to go to Jerez and Cadiz. Morocco, too.
In Granada Centro, down a narrow side street not far from the Catedral, there’s a little café called El Tacón Flamenco, which is owned by a couple from Cádiz. It was the first place I stepped into the last time I was there, and their wide grins and hugs made me feel like I had just come home. Their Tapas are delicious, the beer is cold, and the coffee is perfect. I miss the place a lot.
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Date Dec. 28 2020 18:51:01
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Al pavo real. Just that I do not live nor want to live in Jerez 
