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I'm not claiming anything other than any legal review of the process was blocked.

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ORIGINAL: payaso

Yes, that’s very insightful. Maybe we can begin to understand at least some of Trump’s supporters if we recognise their deep sense of resentment and victimhood – the sense of being unjustly deprived of things that should rightfully be theirs and that have been taken away from them. So of course the election result was a ‘steal’, even before it took place. The idea was fomented by Trump for a long time, months before the election.

The whole idea of the need to Make America Great Again embodies the notion that things that have been diminished and stolen must be recovered. And perhaps there is some justification for that belief in the economic and societal changes of recent years, such as the extraordinary success of China’s economic progress and its devastating impact on some areas of US society.

If you start with the belief that you or others around you are the victims of powerful forces over which you have no control, it is not difficult to find confirmation that these forces are aimed against you personally and can be identified as originating from particular individuals or organisations. Maybe it’s 5G or Bill Gates, or George Soros, the Democrats, paedophiles, a virus hoax designed to scare, subjugate and control you. The Internet will easily provide direction and confirmation for your suspicions,

The Brexit phenomenon is closely similar, with supporters united in their belief that the UK’s ‘Sovereignty’ (whatever that means) has been taken away by (or given away to) the European Union and must be reclaimed at any cost.

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ORIGINAL: Mark2

I know a few trump supporters who are friends. They are successful relatively wealthy business owners. I'm pretty sure their motivations have nothing to do with your description.<snip> it can just be about the money.

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There are all sorts of loopholes that companies and individuals legally exploit

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If it’s legal then it is not a “loophole”.

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If it’s legal then it is not a “loophole”.

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So I agree that there is disturbance or social violence in both cases, but I draw a distinction between them because they are not morally equivalent. One side wants to bend history toward justice, while the other wants to bend it back toward the brutality of the post reconstruction laws that oppress non white Americans.

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ORIGINAL: estebanana

I was amused when he brought out the Conan sword. When he was governor he used to call the democrats in the state legislature The Girly Men. It was pretty funny. He wasn’t a terrible governor.


On the tax topic, the person I referenced up thread is called Howard Jarvis. He architected the 1978 proposition 13 which changed the California constitution and tax code so corporate tax rates were decreased to next to nothing. Prior to Mr. Jarvis ( also known as greedy bastard) Corporate property taxes supported the California school system. He tore that to shreds and education plummeted, while corporate profits skyrocketed.

Was that fair? Now big tech rides along on the tradition of prop 13, schools hold bake sales to fund, and the boards if directors of tech firms make lots of money.
Last summer a campaign to reform prop 13 was put forward, but it didn’t do well in the November election. Better luck in the future. We’re going to reform prop 13 eventually, but in the mean time, buy those baked goods.

Shortly after the Jarvis initiative passed in California other states took up clone policies and decimated school revenue via Jarvis group think. Then employers bitched about the dearth educated applicants for jobs.

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ORIGINAL: estebanana

The reason the latest effort to reform prop 13 failed is because it was written unreasonably. But the fact remains that it needs to be reformed and that the original Jarvis proposition killed school funding. So no, not ****. It never should have happened.

In 1978 California had aerospace engineering corporations, the film industry and everything else. It was the fastest growing state economy and the property taxes were not unfair.

Not ****, truth.

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Bill,

Yes I agree with you to a point, I think, as I illustrate with my personal story about the Occupy Wall st sticker on my truck and the people who were ready to surround my vehicle until they recognized a symbol that they aligned with. I agree that many of them work off group think and even indulge in what’s now called ‘virtue signaling’ by taking pictures of themselves being in a mob scene. I think we’re both annoyed and disgusted, in the case of the capitol building horrified. There are people who cannot really think for themselves and hide in the irrational actions of mob violence that they wouldn’t carry out on their own. All this is clear. I’m in agreement. I’m also taking it further and saying at least for myself there are important considerations of moral equivalence. And it’s my understanding that in general the spirit of the black protest was peaceful, unlike the mob that engulfed the capitol that was potentially murderous in s much worse way than we saw. I’m certain if they had found any opposition politicians who have been demonized by the far right media and trump that their lives would be on the line at the poor judgement of the mob.

I’m don’t feel the BLM protest was murderous in intent. This and other factors give me pause to consider that there are important equivalence values in play. But I’ll leave it that I do agree with your idea of mob mentality is created when cowards join forces for the wrong moral battles. I just reserve the intellectual space to weigh intent and histories arc by my own moral mapping.