REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab

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andymcc

Posts: 7
Joined: Dec. 30 2005

REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab

Does anyone have any Ottmar Liebert Tab, I have Barcelona Nights if anyone wants it but I'm struggling to find anymore.

Thanks
Andy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2006 23:10:19

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

Wrong genre.. I know, his albums may say "flamenco", but its actually
not.

There are plenty of "acoustic" forums out there where his music
is very popular though. But generally, those who are into actuall
flamenco, and know the basics, arent interested in Ottmar.
And that would be most of the members here, i would assume.

So dont be discouraged if there's a lack of response to your tabs.
Its not that they're bad. Just a slight mismatch for this particular forum.

Rock on!
TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2006 23:38:06

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

Jeez, Todd that was harsh. I can understand that the wrong "categorization" makes you a little angry, me too. But this guy only asked for some tabs. (OK Ottmar is probably not the best flamenco player of all times in universe)

Andy Im not an expert in finding tabs on the internet, but this is what I have found in short time:

http://www.mysongbook.com/tab-tab_list-id_artist=3076.htm

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/ottmar_liebert_tabs.htm

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 1 2006 23:54:47

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

(OK Ottmar is probably not the best flamenco player of all times in universe)

That sentence is already giving Ottmar too much credit as it assumes he is some sort of Flamenco player. He is not.

Ottmar is not a flamenco player, not even a bad one. Ottmar is an acoustic player, he plays nice catchy music (if you are in to elevator music) but its not flamenco.

_____________________________

Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2006 2:46:53

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Todd that was harsh. I can understand that the wrong "categorization" makes you a little angry, me too. But this guy only asked for some tabs. (OK Ottmar is probably

I think you are imagining this so called "anger".

There is no anger in my post. Try reading it again.

I was trying to let the guy know, if he doesnt see much interest,
its because, Ottmar, good or bad, doesnt play flamenco.
Didnt want him to think we're snobs or something.
Just a little nuts.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2006 3:49:21

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz
Jeez, Todd that was harsh.

I thought Todd was trying to be helpful, he's right after all and its the first Ottmar tab request I can remember seeing here. Try posting an Ottmar tab request to alt.music.flamenco or the yahoo flamenco group to see what 'harsh' means

Actually the only part of Todd's post I have a problem with is this:

quote:

Its not that they're bad.

Only kidding. Did you know the whole album is published in tab? Cheap too:

http://www.fretsonly.com/products.asp?recnumber=2271

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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2006 9:06:40

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

Ok its cool.
Dont want this place to become snobbish either.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 2 2006 15:12:17

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

Here 5 Tabs of Otti! OLLEYY hehe
http://www.mysongbook.com/tab-tab_list-id_artist=3076.htm

Ottmar makes 100% commercial music but which published CD of today isnt made "commercial"?
Ottis compositions are often small themes which are looped 100 times, thats not usuall for flamenco. If its flamenco or not.. hm Its a hard question. Today they publish many crancy things on "flamenco" CDs. For example Nina Pastori.. is she 100% flamenco? I dont think so. Or Tomatitos Rumba "pa´Salinas" on aguadulce? Nino de Puras new album "pozo y caudal"? Or Paco de Lucias Rumba "Casa Bernardo"? If these tracks could be called flamenco.. than Ottmar Liebert is Flamenco, too. He just gone in a different direction.
Today the borders between flamenco and not flamenco are very blurred I think. I dont know if Ottmar "worthy" enough to be called flamenco.
When is a composition flamenco?? When there are rasguados? Or the measure? The harmony? I cant answere this question.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 13:04:53

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin
When is a composition flamenco?? When there are rasguados? Or the measure? The harmony? I cant answere this question.

"Puros" dont (like to) answer this question. Maybe because they ...

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 15:25:52

PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

quote:

"Puros" dont (like to) answer this question.

Dunno about that, Deniz. At times i think that its the self declared flamencos from outside spain who try to evangelize a lot more than the actual flamencos in Andalucia. Ottmar Liebert so far away from flamenco that it could insult the members here? Hardly. Noone objected to uploads of flametal and jazz tunes lately...neither of which i consider any closer to traditional flamenco than Liebert is.

Here in germany you have tradition clubs which keep native american tribes "alive" and try to imitate their traditions and they argue with a seriousness as if they were on a crusaide which costume is folklore and which is historically correct...when the real indians just smile and enjoy someone caring for them.

Are the gypsy kings flamenco? Manitas? Paco Pena?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 16:25:03

ricecrackerphoto

Posts: 265
Joined: Feb. 5 2006

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

i wasn't even aware that people didn't consider paco pena puro until recently which is amazing and surprising.

doug

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 17:49:43

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

[/quote]
"Puros" dont (like to) answer this question. Maybe because they ...

[/quote]

This is the third time just recently on the forum that I have seen reference to 'puros' in this sort of light. Another post read something about 'keeping the puros happy' refering to paying a guitarist for his tabs and another post said 'beware the puros' for some reason I could not fathom, so finally I am going to jump in, and no not to argue about what is puro and what is not but to say enough of this 'puro' knocking. What is that about anyway ? The 'puros' are not saying there is anything wrong with modern style fusion, simply that it is not flamenco and of course to claim that it is devalues the real thing.

After coming back from the Jerez Festival I am so grateful there are people who value and recognise puro flamenco. I was there with several who helped me get a better insight (Thanks to Sean from Cadiz, Estela and Robin Totton) Thanks to people like them we had the wonderful show of La Fuensanta. If the modernists had their way we would only get shows like the dreadful monstrosity that was Rocio Molino. Words fail me to describe how some intellectual, with no apparant knowledge of flamenco, can put on a show inspired by Nietzche and manage to make puppets of an entire group of excellent flamenco artists, while spending tons of public money which is meant for the development of Flamenco. It was tragic. (Read the reviews on deflamenco and flamenco-world to get an idea)

So I say long live the purists. I'm no flamenco fascist. What the fusionists and creative flamenco types do musically does not concern me, they shoud feel free to be as creative as they wish and I enjoy much of their music but flamenco will not survive if they appropiate its name. Ojos De Brujo spring to mind who claim to be flamenco and in the same breath declare "Flamenco is dead".

So come on stop knocking the purists. We should appreciate them.

And down she climbs from her soapbox.....

Kate

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Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 18:37:31

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to PacoPaella)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PacoPaella
At times i think that its the self declared flamencos from outside spain who try to evangelize a lot more than the actual flamencos in Andalucia.

I was never in Spain, shame on me, but I also heard that non-spaniards are more conservative on it then the Spanish themselves, which is funny :)

Kate, hm, did I say Puros are bad or that I dont appreciate their work?
Its NOT enough to say "this is not flamenco". If its not flamenco they have to explain why.
If there is no clear "limit" findable they should stop categorizing. Thats it! You see, Im not saying its good or bad.

And Im even not the keenest on modern flamenco. My favorite records are from the 60s and 70s

Ps: Its a difference between saying "I dont like this music" and "This is not flamenco". Maybe one should also think why they cant leave it with the first kind of statement, that they just dont like it.
It is almost like they try to find a legitimation why another person (or themselves) could or should find modern flamenco bad... because its not flamenco

Thats logic!

Btw.: I dont know if this discussion is possible, but I WOULD be interested in finding out whether there is this clear (objective) distinction of flamenco and non-.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 19:08:57

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to Kate)

quote:

So come on stop knocking the purists. We should appreciate them.

Hi Kate,
I think the word "purists" polarizes things and leads to arguments IMO.
But I see exactly where you are coming from here..

I (in spite of what people might think), don't sit listening to Niño Ricardo and Sabicas etc all day.
I actually listen to heaps of stuff including Vincente, Nuñez etc..
But I do think that "Extranjero" flamenco, (on the Net anyway) is starting to gain control a bit (for those on the Net) and intelligent and gifted guitarists, some with a lot of music school education, who were once charmed by the sound...are starting to take hold of it and by the weight of their education, practise, Internet savvy, etc are guiding folk into their own "interpretations" of Flamenco, having being first inspired by seeing "Friday Night in San Francisco" with Paco and John McLaughlin and Al Dimiola...

Also I remember at one time someone said something to you, like.."I don't know what the Flamencos you associate with think, where you are ... (Granada)...but all the Flamencos I know around here (Australia)..think differently..."

)

IMO, that's how we get folk "composing" complete Flamenco solos after only a year or two of study, having never actually stepped foot in Spain or Andalucia, never been to a juerga or a peña in their lives...
How can you do that?
Beats me..

I know this post is going to be unpopular...but to me it's just about twisting a particular art form from being what it is to what you want it to be, to suit yourself.
That's why in a previous post I mentioned about dropping compás.
Keep it simple 4/4 so folk can concentrate more on technique...

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 21:39:22

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

I dont know why it is taken as criticism of music simply by saying "This is not flamenco" and I believe it is very important to be able to say that, such as the other night at the Jerez Festival I mentioned before or at an Ojos de Brujo concert or Ottmar Liebart.

The boundaries of flamenco do change, Cameron was thought a modern upstart. Certainly the addition of cajon or flamenco piano means that the music is not puro, if you define puro as traditional, but it can still be flamenco if its in compas. The flute is a personal hatred of mine when added to the flamenco mix, I blame Peter and the Wolf for my flute phobia

From what I have gathered from 9 years here working with flamencos is that they dont need to define flamenco ( like they dont need to count compas), they know what it is. I think Puro flamenco could be defined as cante and/or dance accompanied, or not, by guitar, in compas ( provided by the guitar, the dance or palmas) which vary according to the palo. Each palo could then be further defined. Personally I have along way to go learning to identify the various palos.

The other night at the Jerez Festival it was pointed out that unusually the guitar had played a fandango while the singer sang a malagueña ( if I got that wrong correct me some-one who was there, Sean, Fergus, Simon, Veetus if you are reading this) though I have to say that passed me by. Anyway everyone agreed it was all muy muy flamenco.

Jose Merce sings puro and also sings a pop style. It is very apparant to everyone which is which. When you go to a flamenco concert the audience is made up of aficionados shouting out the odd ole. If he is doing his pop flamenco then the audience is made up of young girls singing along.

Purists may be criticised for setting themselves up as guardians of flamenco but when you look at the number of people claiming to be doing 'flamenco' it is refreshing and potentially vital for flamenco that people are prepared to say when the king has no clothes.

Kate

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Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 21:47:17

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

quote:

not to argue about what is puro and what is not

Sad. That is the only possible way to make this discussion.

Someone says: "This is not flamenco"

1. question would be: Is there something that can be called flamenco after putting on "objective" rules that everybody can check or not?

Possible answers are:

Yes: Ok, everybody can check if something is flamenco and theres no argument.

No: So why do some people feel the urge to convince and bother people about the "right categorization" of music???

Maybe, but they havent been found out yet: Then let's get to work and find them! jeez...

Yes, but only the Puros know the "secret" and dont want to tell: Oh well, lol.

Every other discussion is nonsense and missleading.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 21:57:04

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz
Yes, but only the Puros know the "secret" and dont want to tell: Oh well, lol.

I find this sort of comment about Puros a bit ridiculous. There is not a race of people called 'Puros' in Spain

Come to think of it I know of no-one who calls him or herself a 'Puro'. Where I hear the word most is in the studio when the artists are discussing ways of interpreting various palos.

There seem to be two questions here. "What is flamenco ?" and "What is puro flamenco?" Well if you listen to a group of flamencos ( artists or aficioanados) in a bar in Spain they will all have various opinion of 'puro' and often disagree, however they are usually all in agreement about what is flamenco. so much so that that would not even be discussed. The secret, if there is one, is simply to know flamenco and with todays technology that is available for everyone all over the world without even going to Spain. So, no big secret just experience and knowledge.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 22:30:34

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Hi Kate,
I think the word "purists" polarizes things and leads to arguments IMO.
But I see exactly where you are coming from here..

Ron

Thanks Ron, was beginning to feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall. I just dont see what the problem is. Morente's early stuff with Sabicas and Habichuela was puro no ? And his album with Lagartija Nick doing Cohen songs was obviously not.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:11:35

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

Well, Puro is a term that came up because of lazyness I think, not to discriminate.
If you asked me who a Puro is: Somebody who says for example Gipsy Kings and O. Liebert is not flamenco at all. "Puro" just summarizes this standpoint and attitude.

Regarding the "secret": that wasnt my opinion, it was even meant a bit ironic (you picked out the least important sentence of my post and quoted it; of course there is no secret!). It was just another way to answer (or better to NOT answer) the 1. question, which necessarily needs to be answered before any discussion on "Puro" can begin, and, sadly this hasnt been the case.
I only showed the possible answers to that question, but maybe you have a different answer?

So Im asking again: Can you give me some rules or tools which help me to identify flamenco or not?
If its a lack of knowledge just tell me which knowledge.

Im not saying "this is flamenco" or "this is not puro". Completely nonsense to lead this kind of discussion without having agreed on one definition of flamenco!!!

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:16:19

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin
Today they publish many crancy things on "flamenco" CDs. For example Nina Pastori.. is she 100% flamenco? I dont think so. Or Tomatitos Rumba "pa´Salinas" on aguadulce? Nino de Puras new album "pozo y caudal"? Or Paco de Lucias Rumba "Casa Bernardo"? If these tracks could be called flamenco.. than Ottmar Liebert is Flamenco, too.

Everyone is trying to be commercial I guess. And no reason why Tomatitio or Paco or anyone should not experiment away, play jazz, collaborate with other styles and attract a wider audience. When they play flamenco, it is recognisably flamenco. I agree that Nina Pastori is now considered as pop, but her early stuff wasn't and I'm told she still sings in the penas and obviously does not do her pop stuff.

Its not that blurred, I saw Son de la Frontera in Jerez, great show, flamenco based cuban fusion with the emphasis on flamenco, great compas. They got a standing ovation but no-one was confused as to what was going on or critical that they were experimenting.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:21:53

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

Well, Puro is a term that came up because of lazyness I think, not to discriminate.
If you asked me who a Puro is: Somebody who says for example Gipsy Kings and O. Liebert is not flamenco at all. "Puro" just summarizes this standpoint and attitude.

For me a 'purist' is an aficionado who prefers traditional flamenco. I know many flamencos who do not consider themselves purists but talk about playing 'puro'. For example Emilio Maya plays puro accompanying cante but also does jazz and magreb fusion.

It sounds to me that your definition is someone who argues whether a piece of music is flamenco or not. But in all honesty if someone says that Ottmar or Gypsy Kings are not flamenco they are simply stating the obvious.
Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:29:38

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz
So Im asking again: Can you give me some rules or tools which help me to identify flamenco or not?
If its a lack of knowledge just tell me which knowledge.

Listen and learn the palos and the compás.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:32:29

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz
Completely nonsense to lead this kind of discussion without having agreed on one definition of flamenco!!!

I think flamenco is clearly defined by the palos and their compas.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:34:30

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to Kate)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kate
Ottmar or Gypsy Kings are not flamenco they are simply stating the obvious.

What you simply call "the obvious" is the reason why people argue on this. And the only way to solve this argument is to lay open what IS or whats is NOT (flamenco).
By saying "its obvious that the GipsyKings are not flamenco" you just ensure that THIS argument goes on and on and on and on...

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:40:56

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz
Regarding the "secret": that wasnt my opinion, it was even meant a bit ironic (you picked out the least important sentence of my post and quoted it; of course there is no secret!).

Dont take it personally Deniz. Whether it is was your opinion or not I have heard this many times usually by people who dont play flamenco. They make comments about a secret conspiracy theory which has the puro fascists dictating what is and is not flamenco. I'm not sure it reads as ironic. It comes up time and again in interviews with fusion type artists, or people who want to do flamenco their way and get annoyed when people say, yes but that's not actually flamenco.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:45:23

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz
By saying "its obvious that the GipsyKings are not flamenco" you just ensure that THIS argument goes on and on and on and on...

If you want to call them flamenco go ahead, they all say so in their publicity over the years but I cant agree.

You ask what makes something flamenco and I answered the palos and the compas. Read any book on flamenco, ask any flamenco artist and they all say the same.The Gypsy Kings play Catalan Rumba and Ottmar Liebert plays a spanish guitar, but that does not make them flamenco.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 3 2006 23:57:46

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

Well I thought it was just a half-ironical half-provocative, funny statement. It was the last point of my post and I wanted to add something funny to it.

The complete sentence was: (To the question if there are objective rules that determine what flamenco is)
"Yes, but only the Puros know the "secret" and dont want to tell: Oh well, lol."

First: of course there is no secret, and second: I thought this "they dont want to tell" would be funny... oh well

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2006 0:02:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to andymcc)

Ok you said Palos and compas as a definition on flamenco.
At that time I was just writing a post so couldnt answer on it.

That could be a possible way to describe flamenco, dont have anything against it. Is Rumba (4/4 rythm) flamenco then? And why or why not?

These distinctions must be made. This would be a positive, useful way to discuss this. Otherwise everybody ends up saying "this is/is not flamenco", which actually means having no solution but only unnecessary arguments.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2006 0:20:38

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz
Is Rumba (4/4 rythm) flamenco then? And why or why not?

These distinctions must be made. This would be a positive, useful way to discuss this. Otherwise everybody ends up saying "this is/is not flamenco", which actually means having no solution but only unnecessary arguments.

I have no arguement and these distinctions are made. The rumba is a form of ida and vuelta, originated from Cuba and coming to Spain 1900s. In the Junta's guide to flamenco it is is defined as folk music from Latin America. The flamencos adapted it to the tango compas and it is a very popular style, lots of radio play and mostly considered pop.

Robin Totton talks about the ida and vuelta styles in his book "To my mind they are none of them flamenco, except in the touch they get from being sung by flamencos" That would be the general aficionado's view.

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2006 8:38:41

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: REQ: Ottmar Liebert Tab (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

not to argue about what is puro and what is not

Sad. That is the only possible way to make this discussion.

In order to have a discussion about what is puro or not requires a better understanding than I have over the intricacies within flamenco; the history, the styles, the singers, the origins and development etc.

As we are currently debating whether or not, and if not why not, Ottmar Leibert's music is Flamenco I would suggest we have quite a long way to go before we can move on to the discussion of what is puro or not within flamenco

It was said in a press conference in Jerez last week that flamenco keeps its eyes on the past. I think it was a criticism of flamenco that they felt they addressed in their terrible show but instead I was reminded of a Vietnamese saying that a man who has one eye on the past is half blind, but the man with both eyes looking to the future cannot see at all.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2006 9:26:51