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Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

My Faustino Conde story 

As a new member I would like to offer my little tale of how I acquired this pearl of my guitar collection, a 1983 media luna.

My 2000 Dias flamenco now sadly sits alone and unplayed these days because she has been cast aside for a new and brighter flame.

Ever since Manuel Diaz of Granada sent me his best student model( that I offered a nice microphone as downpayment while hanging about in his shop during a 3 month stay some years ago)..this was my go to Spanish guitar.

Fast forward to recent events that saw my GAS for a high end flamenco guitar realized through a father's inheritance gift to myself..as a enthusiastic but non professional musician would my father approve, I wonder?

My esteemed and respected teacher always said " when your ready,we'll find you a good guitar" and now with fingers failing and distant lands far from the flamenco world in his sights,a variety of top end guitars were available from this trusted source.

I wasnt going to barter or badger a super low price,this was my mentor's only retirement money source after all and as I said,I trust my teacher's advice.

I did want to know however how he went about choosing this particular guitar because we all seen the stories about the many fake or lesser Condes..

I will relate this as it was told to me without names of course but I'm sure there are some here who know of whom I speak.

So my teacher ,even though living and playing with the gitanos of jerez found that the first visits to gravina street weren't productive. It was only after a letter written from a friend who runs a shop in Seville verifying his status that they brought out the " good stuff" for him to try.

So after all day with about 13 guitars to try,this one which I now call my own ,was chosen.
I paid a good price without much haggling because this is my teachers only source of retirement income and again,you have to trust your mentor.

In retrospect I kind of wish I had sat down with all of his inventory which included a Reyes,Barba,Phillipe Conde and...a 1994 Arcangel.

Dont get me wrong, I love my 1983 Conde..she's the most perfect resonating and beautiful sounding guitar I've ever played but sometimes when i really dig in I'm thinking that this one might not be perfect for me.
She has been played a lot and while in excellent shape for a 38 year old guitar the frets are getting low and I'm wishing for more volume,a more explosive voice..I dont quite know how to describe it and I'm feeling guilty even thinking about it..I mean who am I to want/ deserve anything better!!

But heres the rub,the Arcangel is still available and with full trade in value for my Conde offered because of the bloody high cost of this pretty well mint '94 blanca..I'm actually thinking about trading in my lovely Condi as I call her.
So that's my tale ..please flame away if you please or offer some advice..I'll be appreciate no matter what..
Thanks for reading!
Jon
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2020 16:30:49
 
TonyGonzales84

 

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

I offer you, as I'm sure your father would, congrats on your Conde, and I'm sorry about that GAS (lol).

On the Arcangel, do you have access to playing it? If you can play it for some time, you may have your answer, whether buy it or don't. It's a nice dilemma!

_____________________________

Tony
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2020 17:03:03
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to TonyGonzales84

Thanks for your reply Tony.

Yes I can go and play the Arcangel and the Phillipe to evalulate/ compare all 3.
But one must confront the real cost and motives involved. More gas/ fickleness/holy relic acquisition syndrome or truly finding the right guitar?

It's hard for me to determine this in regards to flamencos.
Now in my more familiar electric world I'm on firmer ground.I recently sold off my '83 strat to a player friend who coveted it because I just wasn't playing it due to my new firebird 1( single p.u.alla Clapton) which I'm smitten with..you only have so much time for playing and so nostalgia falls by the wayside..

Anyway regarding the holy relic Arcangel..yes they're almost unattainable in this shape but it will never be a sound financial investment I've been advised...
I mean what is a good price for such a guitar really,?

Anyway..having fun with my Conde and scheming away,just in case !
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2020 17:59:19
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12948
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

GAS



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2020 20:11:33
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3122
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Ricardo

I was showing a new guitar--and two others--to one of my grand-nephews at my sister-in-law's house, when she asked me, "Why do you need three guitars?" I had seven at the time.

I considered my reply for a few seconds, then asked, "How many grandchildren do you need?"

She laughed heartily. She has eleven.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2020 21:41:12
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Now that's a beautiful metaphor when dealing with the question of " how many guitars"!

I think unlike children, who grow and develop personalities all their own with or without your involvement,guitars need to be played,sweated and fussed over to really come into their own.

Hence my head shaking at guys on the les paul forum with 10 flame tops and looking for more..

So when it comes to flamenco guitars I really dont need a harem just one above all others to lavish my undivided attention on ..plus a nice " beach " guitar to beat about and abuse when I'm in the cups!

I guess my in between the lines question is how much should one be prepared to pay for something like this particular Arcangel if it is indeed head and shoulders above the Conde I have now?

Thanks again for reading!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2020 22:32:53
 
TonyGonzales84

 

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Good question...how happy do you want your father to have been for you?

_____________________________

Tony
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2020 22:57:28
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Well now that's a good question.

Since he was conservative in spending and investment unlike myself(!) he might not approve. But he did plant the demon seed with an xmas gift of a Zenon acoustic when I was 7 and so helped me on my downward path..

He later donated his oboe and other stuff to Cuba when he gave up playing which I thought was very cool.

I'll be handing my guitars to my son..who hasnt really shown much interest other than bass(!) guitar so far.lol

My father was deeply passionate about all things Beethoven, Mozart et al and quite liked the flamenco shows he was able to attend.Im sure he knew the value of a great instrument in the hands of capable player and possibly the wisdom of this kind of investment also.


Now whether I'm capable enough or this particular guitar worthy of such a pricetag..that's still up for debate!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2020 23:33:54
 
RobF

Posts: 1112
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

My feeling is, if you can afford to, keep the Conde and go back to your old teacher with the intent to buy one more of his guitars. Don’t get stuck on the idea of the Arcangel if he still has a Barba and a Reyes. Try them all and ask his advice while doing so. To my mind, there is no such thing as having to be worthy to own an instrument, that’s nonsense. If you can walk away with two of your teacher’s guitars at a price that he feels has been fair to him, and you’re also happy and all your relationships remain intact, then it’s a win-win.

In time, you can decide whether you should sell one of them, or perhaps keep both. I think your father would understand.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 1:20:52
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Thanks for chiming in Rob.

Unfortunately the Barba and Reyes are gone,only the Philippe Conde and Arcangel remain.
Hence my wishing that before I bought the Conde I had tried all of my teacher's guitars.

I'ts only after some time with the 83 Conde and the recent offer of redeeming the price paid but only in conjunction with the much more expensive Arcangel that I'm comtemplating a switcheroo.

Pretty sure another expensive guitar coming home to roost wouldnt bear well with my beloved wife..whereas a miraculous colour change from red to blanca might slip by unnoticed lol!

There's also the possibility that the 2000 Phillipe Conde is the one...again I wished I had tried them all before selecting ..at the time I couldn't contemplate spending anymore than what the '83 was going for..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 1:51:36
 
TonyGonzales84

 

Posts: 78
Joined: Apr. 23 2020
From: San Diego, CA

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

This gets to be reeeeeal delicate, but, in another field of interest, there's a saying, "don't sneak them into the house." This relates to the red to blanca change. If something permanent happens to you, your widow may get taken by unscrupulous buyers, in undervaluing your goods, when she sells them. This is real, and hard as heck for all of us former little boys -- I tend to take my lumps, up front (yeah, that couch is sometimes pretty comfortable!).

_____________________________

Tony
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 3:02:19
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Lol I hear ya Tony!

They fall in love with you when you sweep them off their feet with wine,home cooking,passion and flamenco/ the blues but later as domestic bliss sets in and those old urges to procreate in a new and better guitar kinda way..well the **** hits the fan!

Seriously though I would always provide a "will" that documents each instrument's value,sell ability and the like to make moving them as beneficial as possible..

Still the question for me remains ; will a near mint Arcangel blanca have real intrinsic market value in today's world? If not then it comes down simply to" is this the chosen one above all others" and I gotta have it..damn the torpedoes.!

Shouda kept that '60 strat I had for a song years ago!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 3:38:16
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12948
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact you only have ONE conde. What’s up with that? They come in 3’s like quarks, or something is always missing.

And there is no such thing as 2000 Phillipe conde. There is Felipe Conde jr and Sr since 2011 or so. And there was once conde hermanos from the Felipe V address, but those had model numbers that are important to know. For example I have an AF25 from 2000, (one of the three of course).

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 6:51:32
 
mt1007

Posts: 145
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Jonnycake,

Average sales in todays market for Arcagel is about low 13K to high 17K. I've seen them even at 20K. To sell at these prices, it would take a very long time. With current state of things not so many people would or could hand over that amount of cash. If an Arcangel went to auction, your talking about 7K to 9K tops.

Keep the 83 especially if its signed. I've had many Condes, sold some. Of the ones I got right now my 68 is my fav. It's a players guitar, it's got two big cracks on top but I dont care, its the best sounding Conde I've ever owned. I got a 72 in mint conditions that is bad ass, but the 68 just feels extremely light with pegs, very hollow sound, muy flamenca.

Anyways man, if you can get an Arcangel that has great sound and play-ability then get it. I have only tried one and it was good but not 20K good.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 17:11:16
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Thanks again everyone for replying to my thread.

To answer about the 2000 Philippe Conde..its an A26 from Postigo's shop in Seville and very little playing time so basically mint.the top model at that time and mindblowingly loud..could be just what I think I'm looking for!

The 1994 Arcangel is also very little playing time ,used only for concerts and so basically mint also..the jewel in my teacher's collection.
21k!

I'm gonna have to play both to settle this conundrum but meanwhile I'll be playing this beautiful '83 Conde.

A little wear around the tap plates and a couple tiny dings but in my eyes,in very good condition. Sings like bird,light almost wants to float away sometimes! Frets getting a little low which means it sometimes seems too easy to play when I get going..

I guess if I have to have one of those 2 others,I would need to get 7 k for this '83 to make a deal plus unload a couple of others I'm not using much nowadays.

They are 2000 Diaz and a 1999 takemine flamenco
( gypsy kings model)that has the "cool tube" electric upgrade.
Both very decent guitars altho the Diaz a has been a bit beaten up over the years!

Btw if anyone here has opinions on the takemine fgd 136s I'd welcome their input..Always thought this a good guitar with great and convenient onboard electrics but now never played due to Condi's taking over all my playing time.

Decisions,decisions!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 18:09:45
 
RobF

Posts: 1112
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

If you are in the position where you can consider trading up to the Arcangel at 21K then I would suggest keeping the ‘83 Faustino and spending the rest of your time practicing and being thankful for your good fortune. Let the Arcangel go, and forget about the 2000 Conde, too. Don’t listen to Ricardo. He is a bad influence.

Think of it this way...If you get a mint Arcangel for 21K it’ll be so precious to you that you’ll never be able to enjoy playing it properly. It’s not going to further the cause. I once bought an old air cooled Porsche 911 Coupe with ultra low miles. I got it for a really good price. I drove the crap out of it in all kinds of weather including snow for many years and finally sold it for a fair amount more than what I originally paid. The rub was, it was skyrocketing in resale value and I was getting to the point that I was afraid to take it out of the garage. Somebody was bound to plow into me at a red light somewhere and my ‘investment’ would disappear. So, I sold it. Every time I got behind the wheel of that car my pulse quickened, even on the day I drove it to the MOT to hand over the keys to the new owner. I loved it. But I don’t regret selling it for one second, I could not enjoy driving it, it was no longer useful.

Point is the Arcangel at that price is not necessarily a great investment, you might not enjoy playing it, and you’d likely be buying high and quite possibly selling low. Listen to mt1007. He’s a good influence.

My vote is to keep the ‘83 Conde and play it the way its creator intended.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 18:58:46
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Some really sound advice folks.

This forum has been very eye opening for me.You see I've never really been too much involved with all things regarding different builders,buying and selling etc but have been deeply drawn to old style puro flamenco like Diego Del Gastor,Nino Ricardo ..probably reflecting the influence of my teacher.

So just having a good guitar with heart has been enough and it's only been lately that I've had the wherewithal to inch deeper into the fascinating world of high end guitars.

I will play that Arcangel to see what all the fuss is about at some point and will as recommended here in this forum play the hell out of this '83..and be thankful.

Also meanwhile I'll be investigating what some great players I've seen in these pages( Jose Louis Monton comes to mind) are using in order to determine what other options there might be in a good guitar going forward.

Again thanks for all the great advice!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 20:11:41
 
mt1007

Posts: 145
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Jonnycake,

Don't go by what others play but what goes best with you. Easier said than done, especially if addicted to collecting guitars like me. From what I've learned in collecting is that you always want to play the most comfortable guitar, you know one that fits like an old used baseball glove. I've bought guitars from my own teachers, such as Ramon Jimenez because I wanted to achieve that Cano Roto sound, technique etc.. and all though his guitar was bad ass it just didn't go with me. Whatever you get make sure you have it setup properly. This will change as you progress as a player. Enjoy the journey man...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 21:04:08
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12948
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

quote:

To answer about the 2000 Philippe Conde..its an A26 from Postigo's shop in Seville and very little playing time so basically mint.the top model at that time and mindblowingly loud..could be just what I think I'm looking for!

The 1994 Arcangel is also very little playing time ,used only for concerts and so basically mint also..the jewel in my teacher's collection.
21k!

..... Frets getting a little low which means it sometimes seems too easy to play when I get going..


1. Mind blowingly loud is not a good thing in my mind...especially not true of good Condes in my experience. It’s those bassy guitars that pretend to be louder in your room or but fail to project cleanly in the mids When you need it... condes are popular thanks to the rich midrange and clean rhythm.

2. Low worn frets feel like higher action... high frets feel like lower buzzy action. Check bone saddle which can get grooves and lower action unintentionally...easy fix. Lot easier than refret.

Here’s 1997 A26 vs 1982 Arcangel for comparison. Acousticlly Arcangel is bassier and louder with more sustain. I think that comes through:




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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 21:54:15
 
mt1007

Posts: 145
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Ricardo

Ricardo,

That rajeo at second 41 with the Conde sounds great man. Are you using pinky? Looks like it. Don't mean to hijack but thats a nice rajeo with great note separation man...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2020 23:29:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12948
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to mt1007

quote:

ORIGINAL: mt1007

Ricardo,

That rajeo at second 41 with the Conde sounds great man. Are you using pinky? Looks like it. Don't mean to hijack but thats a nice rajeo with great note separation man...


I had to slow it down to be sure

eami,iup/eami,iup-Pdown. Pinky yes I call it “e” for extender. Some call it ch for Chiquito. I developed the pinky early on in my learning and later realized many of my favorite players were not using it much or avoid it altogether. But I like it honestly, the fact it’s missing from a lot of modern repertoire makes rasgueados sound bland to me, and this piece is deliberately “retro”, an homage to Paco’s early Alegrias solos.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2020 14:12:25
 
mt1007

Posts: 145
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Ricardo

Yo Ricardo,

Thanks for the info. I agree it is not a commonly used rajeo but none the less it should be in everyone's arsenal. I practice rajeos that I never use on stage, if anything they just make my right hand fingers more independent. Nice piece man, like Paco's old school alegrias for sure.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2020 18:08:27
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2242
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Here’s 1997 A26 vs 1982 Arcangel for comparison. Acoustically Arcangel is bassier and louder with more sustain. I think that comes through:


Did Sanchis build the 1997 A26?

I understand that he is retired now and that his 2 sons are still building. I talked at length to a mutual friend of ours about the sons coming to take a lesson for the 1977 Rodriguez plan, to add to their classical guitar arsenal.

I have yet to hear back from this friend and I mentioned to him that all I would require is for them to build the 1977 plan and bring it to me and I would guide them in the fine tuning process.

My friend seems to think that the sons would like to have this information. Needless to say, with their expertise, even at the level of Manuel Adalid's recognition of this technique, they should understand it quite well.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2020 21:13:10
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

Well this humble thread of mine certainly has some legs!

Great playing/ comparison between the Conde and Arcangel by Ricardo!

I try not to get discouraged when I hear such accomplished technique because having spent a lot of my time playing electric blues( where it is like ringing a bell for me) its only natural I guess that my flamenco playing will always be somewhat of a disappointment..theres SO much to learn/ know!

Still I believe I understand a lot and will continue to bang away at it for as long as I'm able.

I would also like to learn more about some of the not quite so famous guitar makers I see mentioned here and elsewhere ..perhaps what's perfect for me can be found there.

Meanwhile I do have this '83 Conde which has a beautiful voice and has accompanied many great singers in her history ...I could do worse!

Cheers Jonny
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2020 0:42:51
 
Echi

 

Posts: 932
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

There’s no such a thing like the perfect guitar.
The market hypes some guitar makers to fill the top range segment as some people are available to spend good money for a top end flamenco guitar.
If you follow me, I’m saying that some guitar maker names became high target brands because the market needs isomething to sell at that price: in other words these guitars are good but not proportionally as good as their target price would suggest.

I owned or tried Barba, Reyes, Gerundino and Arcangel guitars and of course it’s undeniable they are very good guitars.
What is the best? I genuinely can say there is not: they all have their distinct character.
I found none of them really mind blowing though.
I can tell you a good Conde (as other guitars) is in the same league and if I was in you I would definitely keep yours. A substantial Conde is a treat and among the best deals.
Don’t trust the market too much.
Many good makers are underrated instead.

To answer Tom, Ricardo Sanchis worked consistently for the Gravina and Atocha shop from mid nineties.
He was also among those making the Felipe V first class guitars but just few of them and just for few years. Sanchis used to take care of the varnishing process.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2020 6:09:37
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 2242
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Echi

To answer Tom, Ricardo Sanchis worked consistently for the Gravina and Atocha shop from mid nineties.
He was also among those making the Felipe V first class guitars but just few of them and just for few years. Sanchis used to take care of the varnishing process.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Tom,
In response to your comments above, it strikes me that a Sanchis model A-26 would have been a student model. I believe that during that time, Sanchis still had some employees so my best guess is that he did not build the guitar himself. It was most likely built by an employee. Ricardo himself would have made the design, and sprayed the finish, as well as doing some of the high skill steps but I suspect just by knowing the organization of his operation at the time that he personally had only a small part in the building of the instrument himself. This would be even more so the case if the label reads Ricardo Sanchis Carpio and not Hermanos Sanchis Lopez. Somewhere back in those days the name on the label was changed, looking forward to the time when the son's would take over with the inevitable march in time. That way the son's names would be better established when he would be forced to lay down his tools. At the time, it strikes me that his shop was producing a minimum of 200 guitars a year and most likely not more than 350 guitars a year...that is all a wild guess. I stopped importing his guitars in 2007 and he still had employees at that time. Whether either of his son's had a hand in the building is still anybody's guess. I was not closely following his flamenco work since I am a classical guitarist and had contacts for the sale of the classical models. When I started with him, his classical models were, 3a , 2a, 1a. the 3a had a laminated back and was very much a student instrument. later he introduced a model 1a-b which was above the 2a, but below the 1a and changed the 1a to the 1a EXTRA and if it was in Brazialian rosewood it would be the 1a-EXTRA-R or maybe the 1a-R. He eventually dropped the 3a model probably about the time that his sons started working in the shop while they were still apprentices. Eventually he dropped everything less than the 1a-b. I know that he had many flamenco models. I am not acquainted with the A-26 model specifically, but it would have been one of the lower if not the lowest model and I think that the models changed names from time to time. My best guess is that this would have been on the level of the 2a or 3a in the classical models His more serious models in flamenco would have been the 1a-F which would have been on the level of the 1a-b in classical and the 1a-EXTRA-F or it might have been the 1a-F-EXTRA which would have been at the level of the 1a-EXTRA in classical. After 2007 and I do not know exactly when, his last employee retired and it became an operation of just him and his son's. At that time the model that Ricardo Sanchis himself would have made was known as the model "RSC" for Ricardo Sanchis Carpio. The "a" after the numbers is simply the spanish equivalent of 1st, 2nd,3rd, 4th etc. but in Spanish is is all a. The comparison made on the chat is to me simply saying that Arcangel Fernandes is better than a student guitar. That's not rocket science! That the comparison would even dare to be made demonstrates to me the true power of the name thatA-26 Sanchis has been able to develop over the years. He simply was the most experienced and most prolific Spanish Guitar maker of all time. When he finally came down to building only top quality guitars, he eventually made a special order for Paco de Lucia, who called him and asked for a special kind of sound which he was able to produce and was used on one of Paco's final recordings if not his very last.

There is my best answer to the question about the Question about the Sanchis A-26.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2020 13:34:24
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12948
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

There is my best answer to the question about the Question about the Sanchis A-26.


Wow, really? People seem like they missed the mountains of conde threads here at Foro

First of all the A26 is super damn famous as the UNIQUE designation for Conde HERMANOS top pro cypress Flamenco from ONLY from the Felipe V address (Mariano jr and Felipe) from 1989 to 2010. So many pros used this guitar and her rosewood sister (A25) during that time it’s not funny, and the unfounded rumors that it spawned persist to the present.

1. There has never surfaced any hard evidence or admission, only conflicting eye witness Bigfoot-sighting type accounts of people that claim the guitars from Felipe V address were made elsewhere, or certain Heard-it-through-the-grape vine stories that the makers had outside help for ANY of the A MODELS. In the day and age that people can’t even entertain a secret thought anymore without it becoming cellphone headline news, I find this fact HILARIOUS!!!!!!! I guess Echi implies Sanchis sprayed the orange poly? Where is the evidence?

2.There has been no evidence that Gravina address didin’t make their guitars in house during the above period except for the obvious fact it’s run not by builders but by the builders widow. Claims these guitars are built in Granada or valencia are probable but no clear admission. I believe prices were equivalent to Felipe V guitars.

3. Atocha address Conde guitars indeed I have seen first hand evidence (stamps on soundboard) that low end guitars were built by Sanchis Carpio. These guitars shared design details in terms of rosette bridge plantilla scale length finish etc....and ultimately PRICE. In fact so did the Felipe V B model guitars or student studio guitars etc. I believe this simple hard evidence, and confusion about the 3 different houses selling under one name, fueled the flames of conspiracy that ALL guitars name “conde hermanos” are associated with Sanchis Carpio and sons.

But the glaring problem I have with the idea that A26 could be built by Sanchis Carpio and Sons is I have played dozens of both makes. Why on earth would Sanchis build a guitar for Conde brothers, to be sold at higher prices, that was orders of magnitude SUPERIOR to ANYTHING from their own line???? I mean I get the idea of selling guitars based on the name of the label and history of the house...but the Atocha condes sure look and feel like sanchis and are priced appropriately. But A26, different scale, rosette, feel, plantilla, and priced very different.

The fact YOU asked if MY A26 was built by Sanchis shows the persistence of the myth, and the fact you received a confused message by someone closely associated with Sanchis that didn’t even know what an A26 (lowest student model Sanchis? ) even is, basically puts more evidence in that there is no connection to the old Felipe V house and it’s just more confusion thanks to Atocha’s business practice.

Still I welcome true evidence anyone has to the contrary.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2020 15:15:14
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1758
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Ricardo

Ricardo

It is impossible to believe that some of the great Condes were not made by a family member.

However I knew Ricardo when he was semiretired and continued to make a few great guitars, which are worth collecting, while the family made the rest. He was a friend and coworker with Faustino. Valeriano told me that he too was a friend and coworker (I imagine student rather than coworker).

A reliable friend in Madrid told me that some of the best Condes were made by ex Ramirez workers.

What is clear is that some Condes come from Valencia, some from other excellent luthiers and some from Conde. All are good, but overpriced.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2020 15:31:49
 
Jonnycake

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 26 2020
 

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

My , my..the Conde conspiracies are definitely a thing!

I had no idea really about all this but some obviously knowledgeable people here have some strong opinions.

For myself without this experience or firsthand knowledge it comes down to whether you trust your mentor and are willing to defer to their experience/ judgement. One's own ears of course ,the final judgment.

I DO know my teacher played this '83 Conde for many years and believe his tale of how he chose this particular one years ago.

I also hear how when looking for another guitar to buy some 20 years ago he was convinced that even with all the controversy surrounding the Conde family splitting up that these A26 ( now labelled fc26) were indeed excellent guitars.

And finally it was only through a solid connection with a shop that enjoyed a close friendship with Arcangel himself that saw this lovely "94 blanca become available.

So to sum up,I believe that these guitars have been chosen/ used by an authority I trust and respect and therefore are good choices as far as value/ authenticity etc.

Possibly my only beef is that the prices being asked are not reflective of today's market and may be overly optimistic on what they are truly worth at least today.

For the future,who knows? Would my '83 Conde if still in the same very good shape 10 years from now would as my teacher insists,go up in value? Likewise the Arcangel blanca which is in almost pristine shape command an even higher price?

I'm looking forward to playing these others though and maybe the right choice will become apparent.

For now,I'm sure enjoying the many replies to this thread and humbly thank you all for sharing your wisdom and experience!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2020 17:43:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12948
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: My Faustino Conde story (in reply to Jonnycake

quote:

Possibly my only beef is that the prices being asked are not reflective of today's market and may be overly optimistic on what they are truly worth at least today.


Unfortunately the market slowed and plateaued between the change from peseta to euro and the 2008 disasters. So your 5K old condes and ramirez still hold their value but I know people thought back then that by now they would be 10k or double on the investment. So the range for Conde used is 3-7k depending on what shape it’s in and how bad the person wants to unload it. Arcangel are super rare due to the ridiculous practice of only sending new guitars to japan. So Ive only played 3...two really mediocre and the great one in the video. 10-20k used, thanks to Guitar Salon for trying to keep the value high on those. My treasure luxury guitar is Jeronimo Peña Fernandez, beautiful ornate carved vintage and flamenco sounding negra... it was relatively cheap despite being rare and I don’t get that. To me Arcangel is super inflated like Reyes, it’s weird to me why but it’s just the way it is. Yes it will stay that way so if you drop 20k, there is a chance that one of your heirs could sell it and make it all back. No doubt this Pandemic sh1t has put someone in the bad position that you could and should take advantage of (10k for Arcangel cuz someone needs that cash to feed the family).

Meanwhile I have my dad’s guitar that is almost useless to me, it’s classical. I have a print out of a Christies auction of the same year make and model. If I could unload it for that I could get an Arcangel, two condes, and a Jeronimo. But you know, it was my dads, so I keep it and do some tremolos and stuff, a little Bach. Guitar market is hilarious.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2020 18:58:50
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