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any new (i.e., post-1960s) estilos?
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Steelhead
Posts: 89
Joined: Nov. 20 2014
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 any new (i.e., post-1960s) estilos?
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Compañeros/as,
Can we/you/anyone think of any estilos, in whatever cante, that have entered the general repertoire since the 1960s? By "estilo," I mean, of course, a stock tune (e.g., “La Andonda 1”), to which different letras can be set. (I understand that not everyone uses that word in this sense.) Thus, for example, Kliman (from Soler and Díaz) shows dozens of estilos in soleares and siguiriyas, but they are all traditional, dating up to Mairena’s time but not past. We could enumerate more estilos in tangos and other cantes, but I am not aware of any, in whatever palo, of recent vintage. E.g., in bulerías and tangos etc, there are plenty of new cuplés/songs/temas, but I don’t see any of them becoming estilos per se, i.e., treated as stock tunes, with different letras.
I know a few ppl (e.g., Morente) have composed a new fandango (tune) here and there, but I am wondering how much those things have really entered the general repertoire, with ppl setting other letras to them.
I’d appreciate any insights…
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Steelhead
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Date Jul. 29 2020 18:29:47
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FredGuitarraOle
Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal
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RE: any new (i.e., post-1960s) estilos? (in reply to Steelhead)
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Some Tangos and Jaleos Extremeños come to mind. They were discussed in this thread:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=324856&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1
I wouldn't consider these to be part of the "general repertoire", as you requested, since they are attached to a specific region and to particular cantaores. However they are estilos in the traditional sense that you mentioned. The ones attributed to Juan Cantero, El Indio Gitano, Ramón el Portugués, La Marelu, Enrique el Extremeño, Guadiana, Remedios Amaya, La Kaíta and a few others are all from the 1960's onwards.
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Date Jul. 30 2020 3:43:50
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: any new (i.e., post-1960s) estilos? (in reply to Steelhead)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Steelhead
Right, thanks, though Camarón's "Canastera" (like El Lebrijano's "Galeras") was meant to be an actual new cante/palo. I'm thinking of new estilos within established cantes like soleares.
The simple answer is that there are numerous examples of buleria, tangos, tanguillo, that we can think of as included as mix ins with the old material. Since the source material was always based on 80s-90s recordings, I sort of see them as “covers” like in pop music. I see many things repeated from the Saura movie, though much of that was old school anyway. Of course there are the tunes of Pepe de lucia done with or without his brother or interpreted by Camaron. Isidro, Manolo sanlucars brother, composed lots of updated Cante for various singers, (duquende Samaruco is a favorite) but most of it didn’t stick to become traditional repeated material as much as Pepe’s bulerias tangos etc. Also Vicente composed lots of things for singers (Pele, Merce, Remedios) that get mixed in these days.
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Date Jul. 31 2020 17:40:41
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: any new (i.e., post-1960s) estilos? (in reply to devilhand)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
quote:
Would you count tangos extremeños, tangos de Granada, tangos de cadiz, and tangos de malaga, as all one palo called “tangos”?
All variations fall under a single palo Tango. The same goes for Bulerias etc. I guess there must be at least 60 palos. Here are 65 palos I found. Rumba is not included.
Alboreá Alegrías Bamberas Bandolá Bulerías Cabales Campanilleros Caña Canasteras, Cante de las Mirris, Cantiña Caracoles Carcelera Cartagenera Chuflas Colombianas Debla Endecha Fandango Fandanguillo Farruca Garrotín Gilianas Granaina Guajira Jabegotes Jaberas Livianas Malagueñas Marianas Martinete, Media Granaína, Milonga Minera Mirabrás Nana Petenera Polo Pregones Romance Romeras Rondeña Rosas Saetas Seguiriya Serranas Sevillanas Soleá Tango Tanguillo Taranta Taranto Temporeras Tiento Toná Trillera Verdiales Vidalita Villancico Zambra Zánganos Zapateado Zarabanda Zarandillo Zorongo
Right, well, in that case, you are just showing a vocabulary list of songs, missing ones I pointed out. Chufla pregones etc are melodies mixed in to Bulerias. TARANTA Taranto Cartagenera minera granainas media granainas malaguena all the same form, just different melodies. Solea, as a single form, has equal variations (or more?) in melodies than all those, yet gets counted as one thing. Most of your obscure palo names are single sets of lyrics and melody, hardly worthy of the label “song form”. The better way to view the scope of Flamenco is 4 main song form families, or trunks, then you can break those families down Into various related branches with specific differences.
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Date Aug. 2 2020 18:43:37
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: any new (i.e., post-1960s) estilos? (in reply to machopicasso)
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I keep updating my classification method as I learn new things, but basically I see it as 4 groups of songs,each of which can be given one of 4 compas treatments based on tradition and taste.
Song forms
1. Tona- martinete debla carcalera etc siguiriyas cabales, etc.
2. Romances/corridas- solea, buleria, buleria por solea, tangos, tientos, etc
3. fandangos-huelva, verdiales etc, malageñas (levante, fandango de lucena->Cante de La mina), naturales, fandango de cadiz (alegrias, Cantiñas buleria de cadiz etc)
4. Special songs- ida y vuelta, rumba, Tanguillo de cadiz, milonga, Farruca, serrania (polo Caña serrana liviana Etc), Bambera, p word, alborea. Alegria de Cordoba, pinini, Cuple and other “song” stuff with Flamenco compas treatment.
Compas treatment:
1. Siguiriyas/martinete. ....
2. 12 count/ jaleo- ie solea buleria etc.
3. 2/4 or 6/8 count- tiento tango rumba tanguillo etc.
4. Abandolao/fandango- Sevillanas uses this but is not a Flamenco family song form.
So examples: liviana is part of the mountain songs (Serrania) but is given the compas treatment of siguiriyas. Bambera gets the solea treatment. Vallejo liked to give his fandangos naturales the 12 count treatment. For a long time tanguillo de cadiz was a single song that used compas treatment of 6/8. Zapateado was related. However the modern players interpreted new songs, rumbas, etc with the tanguillo compas and the concept of song “form” stuck. Keep in mind, if you sing tangos or tientos with the 6/8 treatment of compas, you haven’t ventured far from the family. Same when you sing solea at buleria tempo. Taranto was a free cante de La Mina, until dancers gave it the 2/4 compas treatment similar to tientos.
The guitar usually interprets all/most songs either por medio or por Arriba, and often their parallel major or minor keys. The cante levante and de La mina invoked other tonalities, and we associate the fandango based Forms by form name to their respective keys. Example por granaina (B phrygian or G maj/em) por minera (G# phrygian Emaj/c#m), por taranta (F#phrygian, Dmaj/bm) etc.
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Aug. 3 2020 22:14:28
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