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A way to make classical guitar sound like flamenco   You are logged in as Guest
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ipolit

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul. 1 2020
From: Veliko Tarnovo, BG

A way to make classical guitar sound... 

Hello all and thank you for this forum.
Recently I started to learn flamenco technics and I am really excited. I am very happy with my progress so far.
But here comes the limitations from the instrument. I am playing on a really cheap laminated Fender FC1.
I lowered the bridge, set the neck (it has truss rod) and the guitar is almost comfortable to play. But it is terrible for strumming (rasgueados) - it produces mostly metal buzzing from the frets and it is nearly impossible to hear the chords.
So obviously I have to rise the strings to avoid this, but then it starts to sound like classical guitar.
My question is can I achieve some how flamenco sounding on a classical guitar or it is impossible.
I want to buy a flamenco guitar, but it is not so easy in Bulgaria. The only reliable online shop is thomann.de, but they are selling factory guitars, which on this forum are not respected. And of course my budget is limited to maximum 500 euro, which doesn't give me a lot of choices.
Thank you in advance
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2020 14:26:56
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11950
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

quote:

The only reliable online shop is thomann.de, but they are selling factory guitars, which on this forum are not respected.


Yamaha and Cordoba have always been respected for the price range you are after. Other people have encountered other makers as well. You seem to be confusing the “disrespect”, which actually is focused on the higher end....luthiers in particular are bothered by buyers who are ok with paying over $2000-3000 for Factory name instruments vs a hand built from not so famous builders that compete in that range with higher quality.

For $500 it’s hard to go wrong with Cordoba. Yamaha used to be a little cheaper.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2020 17:27:22
 
JasonM

Posts: 1338
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

A possible option might be to pull the frets out and remove material from the fret board with a plane or sanding block and then re fret. Not sure if that’s worth your time and effort.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2020 20:15:28
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 559
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

quote:

I want to buy a flamenco guitar, but it is not so easy in Bulgaria.

Kremona flamenco guitars are made in Bulgaria. According to the description they're hand built. Not factory made. I heard only good things about Kremona guitars. I wonder which luthier is behind Kremona guitars. Maybe you try to contact him/them and find one cheaper in Bulgaria. In Western Europe or in North America they're pricey.

As for your question, I think it's difficult to get a flamenco sound out of the guitar you have there. If you feel you've outgrown your instrument then it's time for an upgrade. But somehow I believe it's the technique. Not the guitar. I can imagine a guy with an amazing technique can make your guitar sound flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2020 21:37:53
 
kitarist

Posts: 900
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

quote:

I want to buy a flamenco guitar, but it is not so easy in Bulgaria. The only reliable online shop is thomann.de, but they are selling factory guitars, which on this forum are not respected. And of course my budget is limited to maximum 500 euro


Take a look at the Камертон99 shop - online or in person if in Sofia.

They have something called Miguel Hernandez Фламенко китара модел 06 F for 880 leva, which is about 450 Euro:

http://camerton99.com/product/2644/miguel-hernandez-flamenko-kitara-model-06-f.html

I've heard that it is a great flamenco guitar for the price. It was all sold out last year but now they seem to have stock again. I'd buy one to use when I am in Bulgaria so don't buy all of them

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 6 2020 23:24:45
 
ipolit

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul. 1 2020
From: Veliko Tarnovo, BG

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

Thank you very much.
Kremona was my first choice and specially the model Rosa Morena. I read several reviews and the opinions are controversial - some people claim the strings are too high, the sound is not good, other people say these are best budget options. The price is supposed to be around 380 Euro. But I cannot find anyone selling those guitars in Bulgaria.
Kremona's bulgarian site is under construction for more than a year - I constantly check it. I believe they are focused on US and Russian markets, where the prices are double. Rosa Morena is listed for 599 USD in USA.
Rosa Blanca and Rosa Negra are all solid instruments but they are too expensive - 800 Euro +
I don't know what is Miguel Hernandes neither Google knows. These are listed only on this site Camerton and on one german site.
There is an option to buy guitar from Spain, but for me it is better to order from Thomann.de since I have bought a lot of instruments from them and they are reliable.
And even I am not really happy with the models they offer, probably I will go for low end models of Alhambra or Raimundo if I decide to order now.
On the other hand in the end of the year I will be able to order more expensive instrument - 1500+ Euro and that's why I was asking if I can make something for my Fender.
And finally there is something which I believe is not so bad to order now - it has flameco sound and feeling - Admira Triana



What do you think of it?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 7:17:59
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1525
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

Go for playability. That is the most importand now imo. It is the shortcut to get better.

If you can find a low action guitar with no buzzing, it is unseen probably the best choice too.

Sound wil develope than and your taste too,(Hopefully moneywise too) so you know what you want later.
Also, in this price range there is a huge differents in the same models too.

I saw on the internet, there are some romanian guitar builders, so, perhaps they have something laying around with low action. Or, they can help you with the action if it does not suit your taste.

Good luck! Getting a better guitar than you have now, most of us spend their entire life with it. So better start saving money!



P.S. the guitar on the film sounds pretty good!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 8:27:10
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3046
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

Rosa Morena you can get for 250eur and Rosa Blanca should be around 600eur. Just call the factory.

Instead of spending money on the Triana you're looking at, just go to Technopolis and get one of the 120BGN guitars (Valencia, Stagg, etc), NOT the Yamaha's. These cheap chinese guitars sound very flamenco and the necks are great while the Yamaha's (C30 I think) they have feel very heavy, thick and sound too boomy. I bought a Stagg C542TR from there 3 years ago and is still going strong, only changed the parts to bone and installed a tablet screen protector as a tap plate (1 or 2 BGN) and it even seems more resistant than real golpeadores. Just make sure you ask try a few and choose the one you can fix/adjust the best as it is much easier for instance to file a few fret ends than to reset the neck angle.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 11:40:32
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3046
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

BTW, regarding Kremona..

I tried a Morena and didn't like the neck or the rosewood fingerboard but the sound was good. For some reason that particular one had a mahogany neck. All other models are solid and the Blanca is really good, you probably wouldn't feel the need to buy a 1500+ guitar after that unless you want new toys.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 11:52:10
 
ipolit

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul. 1 2020
From: Veliko Tarnovo, BG

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

Thank you Sr. Martins.
I am using screen protector as golpeador too.
I'll check those guitars in Technopolis, but if I can buy Rosa Morena for 500 lv, I'll go in this direction.
Благодаря още веднъж. Ще им потърся телефона или ще ида до Казанлък.

Поздрави
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 11:55:59
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3046
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

When you call Kremona, ask them for Rosa Bella and Diva too, you might get a good price and they are all solid but still with a rosewood fingerboard (I just don't like rosewood, personal preference).

Those Technopolis guitars have a maple fingerboard painted black, feels great. This past weekend I was there to buy a TV and while I was waiting I played a bunch of them, still the same vibe as the one I got 3 years ago. You can get the bone nut and saddle from china (ebay) for 1eur. The nut is a direct replacement and the saddle you should sand to taste.

The good thing is that they don't sound or feel like a classical guitar at all. Their "EQ" is very flamenco, just don't expect the sound complexity you would get from a real guitar. But hey, 60eur is the price and you don't have to deal with pricier (but still cheap) heavy uncomfortable boomy classicals

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 12:22:58
 
RobF

Posts: 708
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

quote:

On the other hand in the end of the year I will be able to order more expensive instrument - 1500+ Euro and that's why I was asking if I can make something for my Fender.

If you have the opportunity to personally check out the guitars before buying, from what I’ve seen you can find a 500€ Cordoba that will work every bit as well as a 1500€ one. I’ve came across some real gems in that price range, guitars that perform and sound as good as others selling for many times that. I suspect similar finds can be had across the different reputable brands, as long as you can do a hands-on search. Some of the gems are real keepers, guitars that you’ll still be able enjoy using even after you’ve moved on to acquiring more expensive instruments.

Until you find the right guitar, maybe raise the action on your Fender so at least it’s playable? From your description it sounds like you’ve got the action so low that it’s fretting out. Even if it sounds classical to you, you can work on the music, and the more of that you have, the better equipped you’ll be to make a good selection when you buy your new guitar.

Best of luck in your search!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 12:26:17
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 122
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

In my humble perception, one difference besides bas is the sustain or echo. A classical guitar has the tendency to project an even sound while a flamenco has a much explosie attaque that dies out much faster. That is the reason that on my classical, rasqueo's for me tend to sound muschy on a classical guitar as all the sound stays for such a long time in the guitar and comes out as one puree of tones.

If I play strummed or with dampened strings, I already get a much more rythmic and percusive sound. So you maybe could try and kill the sustain in the guitar body by putting in a towl or piece of cloth or foam. Alternatively, you could try different strings. I am not an expert here but stoffer strings will have les sustain. So maybe some carbon?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 13:13:02
 
ipolit

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul. 1 2020
From: Veliko Tarnovo, BG

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

RobF,
thank you for your advices. I am still in the beginning and I don't have clear view which guitar sounding I like most. I definitely know one guitar which I like how it sounds (I don't know what it is) -

For the height of the strings I found out that if I raise the strings, it's becoming more difficult to strum when I change chords on different positions.
For example if I play classical rumba progression La m (baret on 5th fret), Sol maj, Fa maj, Mi maj with some rumba strumming I have rhythm difficulties because of the string height change from position to position and the strumming is not flawless from chord to chord.
When the strings are low I don't have such issues.

My strings are set at about 2.8 mm on 12th fret and the guitar sounds good unless I strum with more power, but since I am beginner, I believe I compensate my rhythm mistakes with loud strumming.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 13:24:53
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3046
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

quote:

My strings are set at about 2.8 mm


That's not that low. Maybe you tightened the truss rod beyond flat or loosened it too much.. or maybe the fingerboard is wavy and uneven.

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 13:33:12
 
kitarist

Posts: 900
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

quote:

I don't know what is Miguel Hernandes neither Google knows. These are listed only on this site Camerton and on one german site.


I think it is just a brand, made in Spain.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 17:27:29
 
Mark2

Posts: 1527
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

Well, she's a professional so she has a good guitar. You can't get that sound on a cheap classical guitar no matter what you do to it. For that matter you can't get that sound without many years of study either. Learn the techniques and the music, the sound will come once you do that and invest in a guitar capable of producing the sound. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy the journey at whatever level, and with whatever guitar you have. 500 EU might get you a very used student conde, which would be a great guitar to start with that is capable of producing a great flamenco sound.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ipolit

RobF,
thank you for your advices. I am still in the beginning and I don't have clear view which guitar sounding I like most. I definitely know one guitar which I like how it sounds (I don't know what it is) -

For the height of the strings I found out that if I raise the strings, it's becoming more difficult to strum when I change chords on different positions.
For example if I play classical rumba progression La m (baret on 5th fret), Sol maj, Fa maj, Mi maj with some rumba strumming I have rhythm difficulties because of the string height change from position to position and the strumming is not flawless from chord to chord.
When the strings are low I don't have such issues.

My strings are set at about 2.8 mm on 12th fret and the guitar sounds good unless I strum with more power, but since I am beginner, I believe I compensate my rhythm mistakes with loud strumming.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 7 2020 19:45:40
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 122
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
 

RE: A way to make classical guitar s... (in reply to ipolit

Use a capo.

I picked up my classical guitar today to test again (after not using for 2 years) and tried a rasqueo and it sounded much much clearer than 2 years ago... so also 2 years practise and some lessons help my sound getting more flamenco. So should yours :-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 8 2020 14:14:24
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