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what is a good starting action spec at the 12th fret for the Flamenco guitar   You are logged in as Guest
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darylcrisp

 

Posts: 54
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

what is a good starting action spec ... 

i know its personal preference, but what is considered a good low action spec at the 12th fret for a Flamenco guitar?

I tried search as I'm sure this has been asked many times, but I can't get search to work so I may be doing something wrong.
thank you
d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 30 2020 22:53:33
 
Echi

 

Posts: 826
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

Market point of reference is nowadays at 3 mm at the 12 fret and 8 mm at the saddle.
Don’t bother too much if your guitar has different specs if you find it comfortable.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2020 10:31:43
 
etta

 

Posts: 297
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

As low as you can get it and avoid excessive buzzing and feel comfortable. Using high tension strings will allow you to go lower; my guitars are 2.5/2.7 mm, bass and as low as 2.00mm, treble.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2020 15:53:23
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12668
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

You have to cancel the variable nut height. Put capo at first fret before measuring action at 12th. After doing that it’s ok to read 2.5-4mm range. I have both that play fine, obviously the 4mm doesn’t buzz, and the 2.5 buzzes almost too much. At bridge can be 7-8.5mm. Above 9mm bleeding starts.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2020 18:00:05
 
JasonM

Posts: 1565
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to Ricardo

So when people say 3mm for flamenco guitar is that measurement with or without capo? I would assume it’s without
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2020 20:39:47
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 54
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

thanks everyone, this gives me what I need.

d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 1 2020 23:29:42
 
Echi

 

Posts: 826
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

Jason, usually it’s meant without capo.
There was a 3D here in the foro where someone suggested it’s best to reckon the action with capo at the 1st string as it’s a custom for acoustic guitars. The latter method is best to check the straightness of the neck as you may have different action at the nut.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2020 8:20:47
 
Ricardo

Posts: 12668
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to Echi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echi

Jason, usually it’s meant without capo.
There was a 3D here in the foro where someone suggested it’s best to reckon the action with capo at the 1st string as it’s a custom for acoustic guitars. The latter method is best to check the straightness of the neck as you may have different action at the nut.


Explain how it’s different really? I measured most of my nuts (yes yes I have several big ones), from bottom of 6th string to ebony as just below 1mm. As that slot wears (I imagine 1mm was always the intended max), the action at 12 goes down slightly. Capo 1 will always give a truer stable measure if you are gonna compare different guitars.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2020 18:54:46
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 54
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

so here is what i have, Ben Woods BWSM solid cedar top, solid rosewood back/sides thinline. ebony fretboard. there is a UST under the bone saddle. it has an adjustable truss rod. bone 52mm nut. i know its not a traditional Flamenco guitar(don't throw me out on the Foro)


there are a few barely high frets that need a light level/dress, i will do that if i decide to keep it. i will level, clean, polish them all if its kept.

i have a slotted ruler so the frets are not involved. i have the neck dead flat under string tension. the action at the 12th low E is 5/64"(so around 2mm), high e 4/64"(just under 2mm), these taken with a capo on the 1st fret. guitar plays easy, sounds good to me, no buzz unless you dig in(and thats how you want-correct?) if you play light and "sweet", the notes ring all up the fretboard, this guitar has a nice tone, good trebles and mids, bass is there but not overpowering.
the bottom of the low E at the bridge 10mm. high e is just under that, around 9mm.
the saddle can come down a little more, but not much, not enough to make much difference.
harmonics are clear and ring nice at the 5th, 7th,12th,19th, and over the soundhole.
tonight after work i will adjust the nut slots and take the saddle down a little more, there's good string breakangle on all strings.

so even though i have a straight neck and low string action all along its path, the strings at the bridge are about 2mm higher than preferred. not sure if there's anything left to do where i can get the strings at the saddle lower.

so does this mean the neck on this one is a little steep in angle? if the string height is low as i measured and stays low along the entire fretboard, does that 10mm height at the bridge matter for playing? i'm trying to understand what it would do or cause.

i do like how this one sounds, its extremely comfortable to hold, seems rich in tone, resonant. where i don't know how to play Flamenco i'm hoping to make sure i get something thats really good to learn on. after i adjust the nut slot depths, i think it will play effortless and have good tone and such. it doesn't have a sloppy or thin tone.

thanks everybody
d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2020 11:19:25
 
Echi

 

Posts: 826
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

quote:

so even though i have a straight neck and low string action all along its path, the strings at the bridge are about 2mm higher than preferred

If I understand it properly, you have something like 2.4 mm action (without capo) and 10 mm at the saddle?

@ Ricardo, it’s just a matter to agree to a standard: Usually shops reckon the action without capo.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2020 11:39:33
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 54
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

It was late in mid morning after working a hard shift at work, somehow I mismeasured the bridge.
So 12th fret specs with capo on 1st fret are just barely over 2mm at low E, just barely under 2mm for high e. Bottom of low E to top wood at bridge 7.9mm

I can still take of a little on the saddle and I will, so probably close to 7mm at bridge when finished.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2020 13:39:25
 
Echi

 

Posts: 826
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

It‘s perfect.
You will have more or less 2.4 mm without capo. In case you wanted 3 mm at the 12th fret you would get around 9 mm at the saddle.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2020 13:54:55
 
JasonM

Posts: 1565
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to Echi

Good for Ben Woods to ensure his signature guitar has a proper neck angle
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2020 15:55:20
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 54
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

I know what happened and how I ended up with 10mm. like I mentioned, around 4am, tired, was removing some saddle just to see what I could arrive at, put everything back and took measurements. my dial calipers are digital and read out in mm/inch/decimal, very accurate. I had measured the 12th fret action, returned it to zero to measure saddle but did not clear it, so it adds when you do that sort of thing.

its been a while, maybe 14 yrs or so, I started wanting to learn flamenco and I was here on this forum. I purchased a Navarro from Tom Nunez, cedar top and I cannot remember the back wood. somewhile a little later I picked up the top level student Conde which was a blanca(3 piece back-I'm sure you all have saw that model). I got into steel string, electric, mandolin, and over time nylon string took a back seat. a lot older and the fire is still burning and I want to learn some basic things, I love Solea and want to learn whatever version I can of that(Moraito was the player I was drawn too when I started, and still).
this guitar I have has a real nice tone. it sits balanced, neck feels great, it just fits me really well. I really like it a lot, actually for a lot of ergonomic reasons, I like it better than the two I had a long time ago. in time, if I progress and feel the desire, i'll try to find a good traditional build.
. I do a lot of setup work for some local semi/pro players (steel string, electric, mandolin, banjo). I really like the organic nature of nylon string instruments.


thank you all very much for your help, your guidance and info
d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2020 22:18:44
 
JasonM

Posts: 1565
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

Well welcome back D-Crisp! A lot of us ebb and flow with flamenco. That’s great you are happy with the Ortega, did you buy online or were you able to play it first? When measuring action with a digital caliper, along with saddle height using the depth slide, I find it to be a pain in the arse trying to get a consistent number to check progress. now I just use a string height gauge.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2020 23:17:27
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 54
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: what is a good starting action s... (in reply to darylcrisp

thanks Jason
yep, I have a stewmac stringaction gauge and use it a bunch, for some reason I had the digital cal doing something with it and just used it. I checked this morn with my stringaction gauge and that's when I saw the mistake I had made. mine is in inches, I need to get a metric, been meaning too so nows the time for that.
d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2020 23:45:50
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