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Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños   You are logged in as Guest
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FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 887
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños 

Just found this. I haven't looked properly yet but it seems to me it's a similar research to "Antonio Mairena en el Mundo de la Siguiriya y la Soleá", on which part of Norman's website is based, except this one is on Tangos and Jaleos from Extremadura.

https://www.amigosdelflamenco.com/assets/jaleostangos17.pdf
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2020 17:10:58
 
Ricardo

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RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

I wanted to comment but I’ve been too busy reading it and searching out the various recordings discussed. I love that it’s a much smaller world and younger evolution wise, and all the singers are closely connected, and furthermore, some of my personal favorites. I love that they picked some of Gerardo’s work with Indio gitano and Ramon el Portuguese as exemplary. Also Remedios Amaya with Vicente, great stuff! I only wish they gave also the track titles in addition to the first line of the letra with dates and guitarist. Hard to find those. Maybe there is an associated audio reference?

For the record, what they call “Jaleo corto” is categorized on Norman’s solea page as “jereZ Anonymous”. I pointed out years back that this was the case, or rather, I Called it “buleria extremeños”.

Thanks for the link, It will take some time to go through it all.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2020 0:08:56
 
FredGuitarraOle

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From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to Ricardo

Yeah I'm also having trouble finding the majority of the tracks. The book apparently comes with 2 CD's with a cantaor named Pedro Peralta exemplifying the cantes in study. However it doesn't seem to include any of the tracks listed as references.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2020 4:59:12
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

Here is 1969 jaleo corto examples (listed in reverse order in the study), and concludes with the jaleo largo. I noted it starts on F major with “ay”, so an extra compas dedicated just to that...so I’m dubious whether other examples are the same structure. The actual words fit the normal structure:



If anybody finds other examples from the study, please post em here!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2020 19:22:25
 
FredGuitarraOle

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From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to Ricardo

Here is the 1974 record with Juan Salazar. He starts with jaleo largo, then corto and ends with largo again. Here he also starts the jaleo largo going to the relative major (in this case C major because it's played por arriba).




However in the 1979 record of La Marelu with Paco Cepero she sings the jaleo largo without going to the relative major like Porrina does in the examples above. Listen at 2:07. She does it exactly like the jaleo corto at 0:37, except she extends all the tercios but the last one.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2020 22:08:16
 
Beni2

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2020 22:17:50
 
wilson s

 

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RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

the oldest recording i could find of Tangos Extremeños is Puñaíto de alfileres



this documentary features the author

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2020 23:10:40
 
Richard Jernigan

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Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

Recent memories of Spain sometimes nearly crowd out the ones from when I first met the country.

Nowadays the roads are smooth, the trains modern and punctual, the food more plentiful, if not necessarily better prepared. There are clean and efficient airports. People are well dressed, compared to the old days. Flamenco is "modern", ¨sophisticated," professional. The corrida is terminally degenerate, except for one or two toreros like the peruano Roca Rey--and even he has to contend with bulls that are drugged and have their horns shaved.

But sometimes a look at the old "Rito y Geografía" videos reminds me of the times 60 years ago when I first came to love the place. Dignity, grace and alegría despite poverty and hardship. Fierce, unbending individuality under the oppressive thumb of dictatorship.

Here's a segment on Extremadura and Portugal, with plenty of old-time tangos extremeños.



RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 5:22:18
 
FredGuitarraOle

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From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to Richard Jernigan

There's a gypsy family that has settled many years ago right in front of my grandparents house and whom I've been friends with all my life. They, like all the portuguese gypsies I've ever met, have no real connection with Flamenco. I was truly surprised when I saw that particular episode for the first time, the part in Portugal is a wonderful and unique record. From time to time I come back to rewatch that last segment. Curiously that footage was taken just a few months before the revolution took place. As you say Richard, "dignity, grace and alegría despite poverty and hardship". All that was lost, the cantes and the way of living.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 6:58:58
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:



Here's a segment on Extremadura and Portugal, with plenty of old-time tangos extremeños.



RNJ


The examples in the above program pertain to pp 53-54, 108, and 118 of the study.

The Ramon el Portugues live at Casa Patas examples without guitar Florian and I covered specifically on page 3 of the cante accompaniment thread.

What a shame Rito couldn’t get Porrina and his buddy Farina. They did show Farina relatives including Caldera.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 15:24:32
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to wilson s

quote:

ORIGINAL: wilson s

the oldest recording i could find of Tangos Extremeños is Puñaíto de alfileres





Pertains to recordings used from 1973 with Paco Aguilera, Plaza Alta 1

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 15:29:55
 
Richard Jernigan

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From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to Ricardo

I have to admit I haven't paid much attention to Porrina. I can't imagine why not. The name is slightly familiar, but if you had played me a clip without a caption, i probabaly would have failed to identify him correctly. Nor would I have identified Paco Aguilera's beautiful toque.

Thanks for posting the links to them, Ricardo. What a fantastic cantaor! Such crystal clear accompaniment!

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 20:08:22
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

I have to admit I haven't paid much attention to Porrina. I can't imagine why not. The name is slightly familiar, but if you had played me a clip without a caption, i probabaly would have failed to identify him correctly. Nor would I have identified Paco Aguilera's beautiful toque.

Thanks for posting the links to them, Ricardo. What a fantastic cantaor! Such crystal clear accompaniment!

RNJ


Here’s a favorite buleria:



It’s so cool but I have no idea what it evolves from, that way he sings the scale to change keys I mean is so interesting, modern singers just seem so weak to me in comparison to this mastery. It must be from some bolero or copla or something.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 29 2020 22:15:52
 
FredGuitarraOle

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From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Here’s a favorite buleria:



It’s so cool but I have no idea what it evolves from, that way he sings the scale to change keys I mean is so interesting, modern singers just seem so weak to me in comparison to this mastery. It must be from some bolero or copla or something.


Ricardo, the minor part comes from a fado made for Amália Rodrigues:

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2020 0:01:36
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

quote:

ORIGINAL: FredGuitarraOle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Here’s a favorite buleria:



It’s so cool but I have no idea what it evolves from, that way he sings the scale to change keys I mean is so interesting, modern singers just seem so weak to me in comparison to this mastery. It must be from some bolero or copla or something.


Ricardo, the minor part comes from a fado made for Amália Rodrigues:




Great find! It’s what I had in mind pretty much, though I don’t know fado, it’s very much like copla bolero etc, at least this one here. Looks like he literally tagged in on to his major key buleria, lyrics and all! Haha! But I still like how he does the scale, it’s a little different.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2020 16:48:43
 
FredGuitarraOle

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From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Great find! It’s what I had in mind pretty much, though I don’t know fado, it’s very much like copla bolero etc, at least this one here. Looks like he literally tagged in on to his major key buleria, lyrics and all! Haha! But I still like how he does the scale, it’s a little different.

That is a very well-known fado of Amália's repertoire, although it is not a traditional fado. I've read that Porrina and Amália were friends and mutual admirers, so I imagine that that bulería was probably a tribute to her and Portugal. The other two letras, the first and the third one, are also from portuguese songs but lesser known. I've known this particular bulerías for some time now and I also particularly like it, it's a pity he messes up the letras entirely. The lyrics he sings are both a bad translation and a failed attempt at pronouncing the words in portuguese. Fortunately his delivery more than makes up for this.

For the "no hay penas como mis penas" listen at 0:50:



For the "ay dame un beso" listen at 0:39. He probably had no clue what he was singing about on this one. This is tipically sung by women because in the estribillo the singer speaks in the first person as a shepherdess that asks her fiancé for a last kiss before he departs to war:




That combination of letras, "no hay penas como mis penas" and "ay morería", was also done by Enrique el Culata, although I don't know who recorded first.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2020 19:53:47
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

That’s very “Gipsy kings” of him to steal and convert those songs (even as tribute). It makes you wonder about all the cantes supposedly “created” by the Gitanos before the time of wax cylinders. I’m sure things evolved along similar lines as this one example. Culata is only 5 years older than Porrina so I guess it could go either way....but Porrina for sure is copying more your examples.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 5:46:35
 
devilhand

 

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RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

Sorry guys, I have to ask this. What is happening in this thread?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 15:19:55
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

Sorry guys, I have to ask this. What is happening in this thread?


Extremadura is a region outside of andalucia where an enclave of artists with unique flamenco styles of singing have evolved in the Gypsy community which has been strongly influenced by its Portuguese neighbors, yet retains the essence of puro flamenco from andalucia.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 20:15:38
 
wilson s

 

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RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle



in this interview they talk about how before him the only guitarist to accompany jaleos not por bulerias was pepe habichuela



and porrinas son who accompanied him in one recording por bulerias por solea

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2020 21:07:11
 
La Jirafa

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RE: Tangos y Jaleos Extremeños (in reply to FredGuitarraOle

This thread is fascinating. The region of Massachusetts I am from is known for having a massive Portuguese population (one of the biggest hubs in the United States). So I've heard the music of Amalia since I was little and listen to Fado regularly but separately from Flamenco. It's a long term goal of mine to turn her vocal melody from "Cancao Do Mar" into a tremolo piece someday.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2020 2:15:16
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