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Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995   You are logged in as Guest
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Ricardo

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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 

Here is a short recital I hadn’t seen before. I love his album with Gerardo Nuñez and he sings some of the same letras here with Tomatito. He is also called “El Moro” and sings on Tauromagia under that name.



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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2019 22:02:59
 
orsonw

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From: London

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Ricardo

For Devilhand- At 9.25 you can see El Indio Gitano coming in earlier than Tomatito expects. Tomatito finishes a falseta and starts a llamada but El Indio takes the end of the falseta as his cue and has already come in. Tomatio immediately adjusts into accompanying the cante.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2019 9:31:41
 
orsonw

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From: London

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Ricardo

I enjoy the raw power aire (and the sartorial expression) here:

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2019 9:34:53
 
devilhand

 

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RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to orsonw

quote:

For Devilhand- At 9.25 you can see El Indio Gitano coming in earlier than Tomatito expects. Tomatito finishes a falseta and starts a llamada but El Indio takes the end of the falseta as his cue and has already come in. Tomatio immediately adjusts into accompanying the cante

Thanks orsonw. At 9:25, Tomatito was like oh ****. It looks as if Tomatito were disturbed right after he starts peeing.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2019 11:55:51
 
tele

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RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Ricardo

Hard to believe he's from Extremadura and not Jerez Possibly my favourite cantaor.
There's also some material of him in the Extremadura episode of rito y geografia del cante, that I found interesting.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2019 13:46:26
 
orsonw

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RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to devilhand

quote:

quote:

For Devilhand- At 9.25 you can see El Indio Gitano coming in earlier than Tomatito expects. Tomatito finishes a falseta and starts a llamada but El Indio takes the end of the falseta as his cue and has already come in. Tomatio immediately adjusts into accompanying the cante

Thanks orsonw. At 9:25, Tomatito was like oh ****. It looks like Tomatito is disturbed right after he starts peeing.


To be fair to El Indio Gitano; Tomatito completes a 2 compas falseta (start 9.08), and then Tomaito's next compas (start 9.19) does sound like he is resolving and inviting the cante.

To be fair to Tomatito he has got his eyes closed and looking up so his body language is not inviting cante.

At 9.55 you can see they make sure to confirm what's happening next with eye contact/body language.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2019 14:40:35
 
JasonM

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From: Baltimore

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to orsonw

Or Indio didn’t feel like waiting and Tomatito is like “come on old man”
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2019 15:31:21
 
devilhand

 

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RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to orsonw

Solea starts at 6:05. The part from 6:05 to 6:28 (intro?) sounds like it's free from 12 beat compas. Am I right?
Even from 6:28 onwards Tomatito plays with no compas except for the last 3 beats 10 11 12, which can be heard easily. What's happening there?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2019 16:53:17
 
Piwin

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RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to devilhand

.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2019 17:07:28
 
kitarist

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RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

.


Ah, good point!

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2019 18:59:40
 
Piwin

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RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to kitarist

Thank you. I thought so too.

Sorry about that. Not sure what I did there. I was saying that for the first ten seconds or so he's just tuning, and then it's in compas but not cuadrado. Something like that.

I can't believe you didn't pick up on all that with the "." though. Ah, men!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2019 19:17:43
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

Solea starts at 6:05. The part from 6:05 to 6:28 (intro?) sounds like it's free from 12 beat compas. Am I right?
Even from 6:28 onwards Tomatito plays with no compas except for the last 3 beats 10 11 12, which can be heard easily. What's happening there?


Basically he is not playing metronomic always...it’s called “elastic” tempo, or rubato. He is always giving accents when singing is going on, even if subtle. Please read through this... I’m sorry it’s confusing with the deleted posts but you can get the gist.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=167134&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=mairena

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2019 21:59:24
 
mark indigo

 

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Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to devilhand

quote:

Solea starts at 6:05. The part from 6:05 to 6:28 (intro?) sounds like it's free from 12 beat compas. Am I right?
Even from 6:28 onwards Tomatito plays with no compas except for the last 3 beats 10 11 12, which can be heard easily. What's happening there?


sounds fine to me from the golpe at 6:16, and from 6:22 it's damn near metronomic, with just some very slight speeding up and slowing down with the accents (accelerating approaching accents, then hanging on them slightly etc.). Completely normal in Soleá. Listen to another 1,000 hours and come back to this and listen again!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2019 22:25:35
 
kitarist

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RE: Indio Gitano and Tomatito 1995 (in reply to Piwin

quote:

I was saying that for the first ten seconds or so he's just tuning, and then it's in compas but not cuadrado. Something like that.


Yep, up to 6:16-6:17 he is just checking his tuning. From there on I'd say the compas is very strong, even though in a couple of places the passage of time gets stretched and compressed.

I was thinking, so why is this not 'out of compas'? And I think some part of the answer is, because Tomatito is able to communicate clearly the stretching and compressing of time, so there is no contradiction between a listener's sense of time and his sense of time. Instead, you go for a ride and feel the turns and twists without losing the compas.

He is able to do this via the accents and the familiarity of the phrasing within a compas and overall. His accents and phrasing stay exactly right in the modified flow of time; the compas structure is preserved.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2019 22:34:44
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