They stole my guitar.

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Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

They stole my guitar.

My guitar vacation in Spain just got started and already ran into bad luck. Today I took a bus from Malaga to Granada to attend a three week guitar group lessons at Carmen de las Cuevas. I put my suitcase and the guitar in the cargo compartment of the bus. The bus left the station only minutes after that. When we arrived in Granada, my guitar was gone, disappeared. (It was a Direct bus route) I asked the driver and his assistant for help. This lady took me to the Info desk where I was told to go to the police station to file a report and then come back to the information desk. After 2 hours I got the theft report. Now the people at the information desk said they could not do a thing. So gone are my Camps Primera Negra, Hiscox case, tuner, capos and 2 Sabicas books.
In my previous trips my guitar stayed home. Only this time I carry it with me because the school in Seviila does not have guitars for rent.
I have trip insurance but I don’t know if it covers for the loss of personal belongings. I will try to file a complaint with ALSA customer service.
Lesson learned, guitar at my side always, especially in the public places.
My wife told me to find a cheap used guitar while in Spain for the lessons. We’ll see.
Enough ranting for today. Sorry!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 18:02:28

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

That really sucks, I have been thinking about baggage theft since it's common in Spain. The police should have surveillance camera footage if they do their job.
I always try to sit on the side of the bus where the doors open, near the baggage compartment, and keep an eye on it at each stop, or when leaving the station.
The guitar in general is too fragile to keep in the compartment and I've always had a guitar with me on the bus, no complains even if there's someone sitting next to me, this is with ALSA.

If travelling by bus with bicycle it's also nowadays important to have some kind of large plastic bag to cover the bike, or they won't let you in if due to uncovered bike, these kind of rules make travelling by bus a headache. Will look into renting a car in the future, I hate buses so I always try to travel by train.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 18:31:04

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Sorry man... That really sucks. Last time I went to Granada I dropped by Carmen just to say hi. There was a Japanese student in the office. She had just arrived. A cab had dropped her off at the main cab station in the Albaycin. In the short time it took her to pull out her phone and look up the directions to get to the school, someone had snatched her suitcase and ran off with it...
Carmen rents out guitars, so at least you should be covered for that part of your trip (though i wouldn't expect much in terms of quality of those guitars...)

If you're staying in the school accommodation, if you head down to the main street (calle Pages / cuesta del Chapiz), Casa Torcuato at the corner makes some mean tapas. Or a bit further down, facing the pharmacy, there's that bar with a large patio. I forget the name but it's the one with all those "todo es amor" messages on the wall. It's run by a Berber guy and his brother. Both are very kind and a conversation with them over the bar just might take some of the sting away for tonight.
In the morning, I'd often head down the hill to the corner between cuesta del chapiz and paseo de los tristes. The establishments there are touristy, but in the early morning you'll very likely be the only person there. It's nice for some peace and quiet, a morning cup of coffee with the stream nearby and the Alhambra looming over you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2019 18:49:10

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Hai difficult to say much. It just is sickening

Just hope the rest of your trip goes well and that the course makes up in part for the loss.

Cheers Nigel

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2019 19:33:21

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Thank you Tele, Piwin, Nigel for your kind thoughts. Today I went shopping for a new guitar at Miguel Angel Bellido shop that Neil had suggested. There were some good ones under 900 euros but I did not to buy one. The one I rented from the school is fine. I plan to convert my Camps CL 30 classical into flamenco or play the Mariano Conde. I’m enjoying the class and meeting new friends. Oh, several students from outside the EU also travelled with their guitars, I shared my bus experience with them and advised them to take the guitar with them to the seat.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 2:15:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Oh that really sucks man! So sorry. What you really need is voodoo protection for your guitars, it makes them invisible to evil. I accidentally left my guitar on the sidewalk outside of the hotel in Madrid after getting out of the cab. This was at the busy corner of Atocha and Paseo del Prada. Maybe like a thousand people walking by there in an hour. I checked in to the hotel went up for unpack and a shower. I noticed my guitar was not there after getting out of the shower, thought I left in the lobby and told my buddy to go check as I got dressed. He came back up holding my guitar and his face was white, cuz I told him I had the voodoo protection years before. He said nobody saw a guitar in the lobby so he walked out side and there it was standing up right in the middle of the sidewalk with dozens of people just walking around it! Must have been there at least 30 minutes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 7:46:17

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

What you really need is voodoo protection

Portugees shopkeepers put keramic froggs in front of their shop to keep gipsy’s out.....

Maybe a sticker or two.......😃

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 8:39:17

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

That sucks. Sorry dude.
Some bus companies give you some kind of a baggage tape when you deposit the baggage and when you arrive, you have to show that tape and you get the baggage back. That also makes them to take care of your baggage more.
This should be the standard everywhere imo but it isn't.
Also always take a photo when you put it in the bus (both opened case and closed). Could be helpful and you have some kind of a proof, if there should be some kind of an insurance.

But yeah, voodoo protection is the best option

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 12:10:41

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gerundino63

Portugees shopkeepers put keramic froggs in front of their shop to keep gipsy’s out.....

Maybe a sticker or two.......😃

To my experience a pig hoof attached to the cases handle could rather be in order. Then again, as some mentality defines its guidelines spontaneously to demand, the attachment might hardly prevent anything.

Just experienced a guy who presents himself as painter. No clue of the job, spilling and dropping paint everywhere / messing up windows and the whole areal aside; a relentless fraud. Presenting false and double bills for material, then stealing it. Also putting items in use without asking and ruining them etc.

Then asked by a welder how come his tools ended up in the ‘painters’ car: “I forgot.”
Taking a bunch of things in one´s car and explaining it with oblivion takes a special cheeky routine.
And regarding another tool: “I thought it was his (meaning me)”. Right, stealing from a host who paid you too well, treated you friendly and catered on top, is just alright.

-

Anyway, sorry for your loss, Goldwinghai.
I know how such feels.
Countlessly, at the other Mediterranean shore.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 12:59:29

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Hai,

Do you have Older pictures of it, does it have serial number on the label inside?

i'll post it on my facebook flamenco group pages, they have a lot of followers, maybe we can pin or at least trace the guitar

These guys look for a quick sale and maybe we can figure out who picked it up, flamenco community is small and looks out for each other, ive seen a number of stolen guitars returned to its owner.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 18:30:07

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to henrym3483)

Henry, thank you for the suggestion. I think I have the photos of the guitar as well as the label in the pc at home. I’ll look for it and get back to you.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 21:35:42

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

hai,

Please do, the quicker we get the pics out there, the greater the chance you might get it back.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2019 22:14:23

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Do report the serial and all details to the police and also look on milanuncios, wallapop and vibbo websites if it shows up there after a while.

I still bet there is surveillance footage of the thief but that's up to if the police do their jobs well, somehow I'm skeptical the Spanish cops would get into looking that well into your theft...
Also if you have insurance back home, they might cover travel luggage.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 16 2019 1:02:05

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007
From: London

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

What a nightmare. I am so sorry to hear this.
I have bought one of these for travelling with and am totally in love with it. If you ask him to, the guy will lower the action if you tell him it's for flamenco. It fits easily in hand-luggage so you don't ever need to allow it to leave your side. eo-guitar
Val

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2019 13:03:35

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to henrym3483)

Henry, I won’t come home until mid-November.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2019 16:45:21

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Hai,

posted it and shared it to a few places, i hope it turns up for you.

https://www.facebook.com/encuentro.flamencolimerick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2019 17:11:30

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to val)

quote:

I have bought one of these for travelling with and am totally in love with it. []. eo-guitar

The website does not list prices. How much was it, ballpark?

P.S. To OP: Sorry for the side-tracking. Hope you get your guitar back!

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2019 18:45:28

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007
From: London

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to kitarist)

About £600 including postage. Hand made guitar and really helpful guy. He lives North Londonish.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2019 20:17:10

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Dunno if you saw this, but M.A. Bellido was robbed not too long ago:
https://www.granadahoy.com/granada/video-discreto-robo-guitarra-1000-euros-cazado-camaras_0_1399060430.html

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2019 10:49:26

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Piwin)

No. I was at that store last week. They had quite a few nice guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2019 5:37:35

Neil

Posts: 78
Joined: Oct. 29 2018

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

M.A. Bellido was robbed not too long ago

That's a shame, that's my go-to place for strings etc. Have also bought a guitar there last in the past, really nice staff in the shop.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2019 9:07:37

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

An update on my stolen guitar: A couple of days ago, ALSA acknowledged that they had received my complaint and that they had turned the matter to the appropriate department. This time I also attached copy of the police report in my reply. At least they are responding. I hope they take this matter seriously and resolve it in my favor. In the meantime I saw on the US Craigslist a like new Camps guitar just like my stolen one. (The owner bought it at Guitar Salon). I bought it at a fraction of what being sold new at Guitar Salon International. The guitar will arrive at my house in Virginia next week. I’ve also been browsing milanuncios.com and spot a 1990 Manuel Fernandez Fernandez for sale in Granada. The has crack but was repaired by Francisco Diaz. The seller initially posted 1300€, then changed to 900 and then last week to 500. Yesterday Neil drove me to Pinos Puente, a community about 30 minutes drive from Granada to buy the guitar. Thank you Neil.. The guitar sounds great. So now I have a luthier made guitar while taking lessons in Spain. Due to the low price, there is no Voodoo protection included! It will not be out of my sight. Exciting?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2019 22:32:50

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Update: ALSA sent me an email asking me to provide some information so that they can create a search for the guitar for a period of seven days. I already gave them exactly the same information before. They also gave me a new Reference number. Below is part of the email from ALSA:

“Once this document has been created, search for the object for a maximum period of up to 7 days.
If the object appears, ALSA will contact you by phone by calling with the hidden number and if the search time ends and ALSA will not contact you it would mean the unpublished object.”

“Once registered, we will send an identification number to the email address you provide. This will remain active for a maximum of 7 days, after the analyzes will not appear considered permanently lost.”

I think they are just trying to wear me down. Realistically I do not think ALSA would compensate me for the loss. But I need to do my part.

I did take 2 more ALSA bus trips, each time the driver asked me to put the guitar in the cargo bay, I shook my head and continued walking onto the bus with my newly bought used guitar in hand. I had the police report ready to explain to the driver if confronted.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 28 2019 1:24:37

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

ALSA's policies are a joke, and forget about them doing something about your guitar, all that can be done in my opinion is for the police to look for security camera footage.
I would avoid that ALSA company whenever possible. Once they refused to take my bicycle as baggage because I didn't have a bag for it, also alsa didn't even give me a refund for my ticket. In general in Spain if problems arise, you're on your own most of the time, like in Russia for example.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 29 2019 13:30:22

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to tele)

In my last email to ALSA I did tell them to look at the security video on that date, October 13, between 11:40 to 12:00 noon, platform 20 at the Malaga station, they would see what had happened to my guitar. But that would be a difficulty task for them to do!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2019 13:49:52

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goldwinghai

In my last email to ALSA I did tell them to look at the security video on that date, October 13, between 11:40 to 12:00 noon, platform 20 at the Malaga station, they would see what had happened to my guitar. But that would be a difficulty task for them to do!

As I mentined earlier also the police should be even very concerned with that footage, yet even the police seems not to give a s*it about it, I'm a bit worried how they deal with more serious matters in Spain.
In any case sometimes unfortunately one has to learn through experience. On another note, it's good that in USA there's a law that allows musicians to take their instruments as hand luggage on flights! I wish they had that in europe, here I have to use specific airlines that usually don't have a problem with guitar on board, for example SAS or Finnair.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 30 2019 16:39:03

Goldwinghai

Posts: 215
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Update: they want to pay me 60€ (sixty euros). Below is their email I received today:

“We are contacting you again to inform you that, once the relevant proceedings have been made, our insurance company has estimated the value of the stolen luggage.

The amount set is 60 Euros.

If you agree with this assessment, please send us a bank account number on your name in order to pay you the relevant amount.

IBAN

SWIFT/BIC

Please send the above to the following postal address: C/ Alcalá, 478 - 28027 Madrid, stating as a reference your file number "xxxxx". You can also send it to the email address saccentral@alsa.es, stating in the Subject your file/reference number.”

Any comments or suggestions?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2019 11:06:03

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

What was the value of your guitar and do you have any kind of documentation to prove it (invoice from when you purchased it, etc.)?
If I were in your position I probably wouldn't "agree with this assessment". I would challenge it or at the very least I would ask for the details of how the insurance company valued it. The worst that can happen is that you don't get 60 bucks...

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2019 14:33:59

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

Hai just some info I've been passed. A little late but just incase:

Help with consumer rights:

it is called OMIC and is administered through the local authorities. It is located at Calle Gran Capitán, 22, 18002 Granada Tel 958 24 81 00

and

CAB UK offered that transport companies (mainly talking airlines but ) are not liable for full amounts. Travel insurance will pay out more.

Sorry not very helpful but who knows

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2019 19:22:31

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: They stole my guitar. (in reply to Goldwinghai)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goldwinghai

Update: they want to pay me 60€ (sixty euros). Below is their email I received today:

“We are contacting you again to inform you that, once the relevant proceedings have been made, our insurance company has estimated the value of the stolen luggage.

The amount set is 60 Euros.

If you agree with this assessment, please send us a bank account number on your name in order to pay you the relevant amount.

IBAN

SWIFT/BIC

Please send the above to the following postal address: C/ Alcalá, 478 - 28027 Madrid, stating as a reference your file number "xxxxx". You can also send it to the email address saccentral@alsa.es, stating in the Subject your file/reference number.”

Any comments or suggestions?

That is very surprising they offer even that amount, I hope it's not available only after a handful of forms and e-mails

That estimate for the guitar is pathetic though, even a childrens guitar is worth 100 euros.
What bothers me the most that there should be surveillance footage on every bus station(major), so a footage of the thief, this kind of ineffective attitude from the coños at alsa and police gives the thieves an advantage. This would never happen in Finland for example.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2019 20:10:33