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Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca)   You are logged in as Guest
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elbabilonio

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul. 26 2011
From: Doha, Qatar

Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) 

Hello, comrades!

I bought two guitars from Pedro Maldonado a couple of years back, one blanca and one negra (both Rondas). After a while, I have discovered that if I place a (metal) ruler on the fretboard starting from the nut, there's a small gap (1mm?) between the ruler and the middle fret bars. This means that the neck curves a bit. I had three different professional flamenco guitarists try it out and they didn't really notice a difference in playability, though compared to the other guitar, the action is higher.

Now that I'm selling the guitar, I'm faced with the question of whether I should "fix" the neck first or sell it with that caveat. Living in Doha, Qatar, I have no option to take it to a luthier. The question is: what would Paco do? The blanca sounds more flamenco, but I hardly play it and I'd rather sell it.

Attached are some pics.

El Babilonio









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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 28 2019 16:48:55
 
elbabilonio

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul. 26 2011
From: Doha, Qatar

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

Perhaps I should be more explicit; about the curve in the neck: is it common for many guitars to have it? If so, is there a threshold beyond which the guitar should be fixed regardless? Or do you consider any slight curve to be a defect and, therefore, it must be fixed? Any idea what would be the cost of such a repair?

Thanks,

El Babilonio
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2019 11:08:47
 
SEden

 

Posts: 853
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

I was going to post last night but ran out of time.

Curve in the neck is important. This is called relief and helps relieve fret buzz. A general rule of thumb is that if you fret the bottom E at the 1st and 13th fret and look at the 6th fret there should be a gap no bigger than 0.5mm. If it is bigger then of course it is too much.

Depending on how bad it is depends on the cost. If it was just given too much relief in the first place a refret would be order costs will vary but I charge £75.

If the neck is just too bendy then some major surgery would be required costs could vary greatly depending on how far the repairer wants to go.

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Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2019 11:54:59
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3040
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

quote:

I have discovered that if I place a (metal) ruler on the fretboard starting from the nut


Just don't do that, it has no meaning. The useful measurement is from the 1st fret, not the nut.

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"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2019 15:24:56
 
kitarist

Posts: 692
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

Seems to have a really nice pattern in the purfling (?) outlining the body of the guitar, but I can't quite tell if it is a pattern or the light plays tricks at that resolution. I don't see a pattern in the purfling of other Rondas I saw on the net.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2019 22:18:48
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11363
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

All guitars have this that don’t buzz like crazy. Don’t fix what’s not broken.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2019 16:00:53
 
elbabilonio

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul. 26 2011
From: Doha, Qatar

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

quote:

I have discovered that if I place a (metal) ruler on the fretboard starting from the nut


Just don't do that, it has no meaning. The useful measurement is from the 1st fret, not the nut.


I think I might have misspoken. Attached is a picture showing the ruler extending from the first fret to the 11th.

Looking at the guitar again, my concerns might have been exaggerated; there's a fraction of a millimeter of relief between the 4th-5th frets and the ruler.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2019 22:01:41
 
elbabilonio

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul. 26 2011
From: Doha, Qatar

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

Seems to have a really nice pattern in the purfling (?) outlining the body of the guitar, but I can't quite tell if it is a pattern or the light plays tricks at that resolution. I don't see a pattern in the purfling of other Rondas I saw on the net.


Yes, it has a beautiful purfling. The headstock also has a nice engraving though it appears distorted in the picture because I didn't clean it and it is also out of focus. I'll probably take better pictures before listing it for sale. Attached are pictures of the label and the purfling.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2019 22:10:34
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1465
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

If you ask a question, it is common to read the anwers.....

See the first pos of Seden and the post of Ricardo.....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2019 22:31:58
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2681
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

quote:

ORIGINAL: elbabilonio

I think I might have misspoken. Attached is a picture showing the ruler extending from the first fret to the 11th.

Looking at the guitar again, my concerns might have been exaggerated; there's a fraction of a millimeter of relief between the 4th-5th frets and the ruler.






Move the ruler to the right so that it touches both the first and the 13th frets. It should just barely reach if your guitar has a 650mm scale. If the scale is longer, you need a longer ruler.

With the ruler touching the 1st and the 13th frets you will have the measurement described by SEden. According to him (a professional guitar maker) there should be a slight gap at the sixth fret, no more than 0.5 millimeter.

On two of my guitars with low actions the gap is hard to see, but the ruler can be moved from side to side across the fingerboard, leaving the ends on the 1st and 13th frets but bending it very, very slightly in the middle, without rubbing on the frets.

Your guitar looks OK.

RNJ

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2019 22:47:17
 
elbabilonio

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul. 26 2011
From: Doha, Qatar

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to SEden

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

I was going to post last night but ran out of time.

Curve in the neck is important. This is called relief and helps relieve fret buzz. A general rule of thumb is that if you fret the bottom E at the 1st and 13th fret and look at the 6th fret there should be a gap no bigger than 0.5mm. If it is bigger then of course it is too much.

Depending on how bad it is depends on the cost. If it was just given too much relief in the first place a refret would be order costs will vary but I charge £75.

If the neck is just too bendy then some major surgery would be required costs could vary greatly depending on how far the repairer wants to go.


Thanks, SEden. According to your criterion, the guitar seems fine.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2019 23:03:47
 
elbabilonio

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul. 26 2011
From: Doha, Qatar

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: elbabilonio

I think I might have misspoken. Attached is a picture showing the ruler extending from the first fret to the 11th.

Looking at the guitar again, my concerns might have been exaggerated; there's a fraction of a millimeter of relief between the 4th-5th frets and the ruler.



Move the ruler to the right so that it touches both the first and the 13th frets. It should just barely reach if your guitar has a 650mm scale. If the scale is longer, you need a longer ruler.

With the ruler touching the 1st and the 13th frets you will have the measurement described by SEden. According to him (a professional guitar maker) there should be a slight gap at the sixth fret, no more than 0.5 millimeter.

On two of my guitars with low actions the gap is hard to see, but the ruler can be moved from side to side across the fingerboard, leaving the ends on the 1st and 13th frets but bending it very, very slightly in the middle, without rubbing on the frets.

Your guitar looks OK.

RNJ


Thank you, Richard, both for your response and for pointing out my oversight in a gentle and mature way.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2019 23:09:03
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1465
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

quote:

for pointing out my oversight in a gentle and mature way.


@ Elbabilonio, Thanks for pointing out my unpatientness in a gentle and mature way. Sorry for that.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2019 7:10:38
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 1999
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

Practically all guitars will have some relief on the board that will appear concave.

This is natural.

If the curve gets too deep, then there should be enough room at the saddle to lower the action a little.

Most guitars are designed to have a little curve, otherwise the string pop on the frets can get too brassy and cause the top to loose its musical tone.

The way this picture appears is that you are well situated with a normal curve.

Another thing is, if you start needlessly working with the action, then this could mess up the top's equilibrium and cause problems with the sound.

And last but not least, don't forget that putting the board too level could cause back buzz when fretting the guitar.


quote:

ORIGINAL: elbabilonio



quote:

I have discovered that if I place a (metal) ruler on the fret-board starting from the nut



I think I might have misspoken. Attached is a picture showing the ruler extending from the first fret to the 11th.

Looking at the guitar again, my concerns might have been exaggerated; there's a fraction of a millimeter of relief between the 4th-5th frets and the ruler.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2019 15:47:52
 
elbabilonio

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul. 26 2011
From: Doha, Qatar

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to gerundino63

quote:

ORIGINAL: gerundino63

quote:

for pointing out my oversight in a gentle and mature way.


@ Elbabilonio, Thanks for pointing out my unpatientness in a gentle and mature way. Sorry for that.


Don't beat yourself up, gerundino63. We all have bad days and get annoyed when people don't listen. I appreciate your brave response; you have restored my faith in this forum ;)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2019 16:53:32
 
elbabilonio

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jul. 26 2011
From: Doha, Qatar

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to Tom Blackshear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

Practically all guitars will have some relief on the board that will appear concave.

This is natural.

If the curve gets too deep, then there should be enough room at the saddle to lower the action a little.

Most guitars are designed to have a little curve, otherwise the string pop on the frets can get too brassy and cause the top to loose its musical tone.

The way this picture appears is that you are well situated with a normal curve.

Another thing is, if you start needlessly working with the action, then this could mess up the top's equilibrium and cause problems with the sound.

And last but not least, don't forget that putting the board too level could cause back buzz when fretting the guitar.


quote:

ORIGINAL: elbabilonio
...
I think I might have misspoken. Attached is a picture showing the ruler extending from the first fret to the 11th.

Looking at the guitar again, my concerns might have been exaggerated; there's a fraction of a millimeter of relief between the 4th-5th frets and the ruler.
...



Thanks, Tom. I appreciate your input. I have learned something!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 31 2019 16:55:35
 
JasonM

Posts: 1073
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to elbabilonio

Probably doesn’t matter too much in your case, but if your were trying to accurately measure the gap and make adjustments I found it’s best to use a precision straight edge. I’ve found using a ruler might give a half millimeter error in measurement
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 1 2019 2:43:57
 
Armando

Posts: 279
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to Tom Blackshear

This is an interesting matter. I wonder how this 0.5mm relief is achieved. Is it worked into the fretboard or does it happen naturally by the string tension? I use to have totally straight necks, even under string tension as i'm using a carbon fibre rod reinvorcement inside the neck. In fact, i had string buzz issues with a complete flat neck.

Oh and by the way, Maldonado copied the headstock that i believe was used originally be Hernandez y Aguado. Never seen this headstock on a Maldonado so far. He is otherwise famous for his fleur de lys headstock.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2019 15:33:59
 
Tom Blackshear

 

Posts: 1999
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
 

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to Armando

quote:

The thing.is that i had string buzz issues with a complete flat neck.



Well, this would be seen as needing to add a little curve in the neck.

I think Richard Brune builds a curve while other makers will allow the curve naturally by not redressing the fingerboard before a fret job.

In other words plane the fingerboard flat and then fret it and then allow the string torque/tension to set the curve.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2019 15:51:05
 
hannabach

 

Posts: 50
Joined: Feb. 11 2008
 

RE: Pedro Maldonado Ronda (Blanca) (in reply to Armando

Yes similar design headstock from the Hernandez y Aquado design...first Maldonado I have seen with this... https://www.siccasguitars.com/shop/guitar/hernandez-y-aguado-1961/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2019 22:26:24
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