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Stu

Posts: 1602
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the east end of it), England

Fdh structure 

Hi guys
Does Fandango de huelva have a set structure or is it flexible??

Yes or no.
If no, what is it and where, if anywhere, can a singer or dancer extend/shorten parts?

Also the escobilla? Musically what form does that take?

Is there a classic arpeggio bit like say on alegrias??

Thanks
Stu
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2019 12:36:51
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11082
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to Stu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Hi guys
Does Fandango de huelva have a set structure or is it flexible??

Yes or no.
If no, what is it and where, if anywhere, can a singer or dancer extend/shorten parts?

Also the escobilla? Musically what form does that take?

Is there a classic arpeggio bit like say on alegrias??

Thanks
Stu


Haven’t encountered any escobilla really. There are a couple of repeating chorus estribillos type things either to start, or end, or bookend the verses. There is a half compas verse that can be dealt with in various ways. There is an old ending verse “arimate ay Gitana Mia....” often referred to as bulerias and has a build up footwork. Outside of these old school standards it’s anybody’s ball game to do as you please with an arrangement

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 17 2019 16:40:44
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1481
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to Ricardo

Regarding the FdH remates (alazapua, pulgar) ,do they always start on 4 ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2019 11:02:21
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11082
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to henrym3483

quote:

ORIGINAL: henrym3483

Regarding the FdH remates (alazapua, pulgar) ,do they always start on 4 ?

There is not a count system for fandango like there is for solea, so please define it first so we can be on the same page. Tell me what you call “1” first!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2019 19:16:26
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1481
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to Ricardo

Ive been told to count it in 6's.
As in 1,2,3,4,5,6. With the full phrase made up of two 6 counts.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2019 20:18:56
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to Stu

Here’s my count for FDH
Boom tatata tatata boom tatata rest.


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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2019 1:00:38
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11082
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to henrym3483

quote:

ORIGINAL: henrym3483

Ive been told to count it in 6's.
As in 1,2,3,4,5,6. With the full phrase made up of two 6 counts.

That means nothing until you describe what is played exactly on what count.

E E7 Am
X Am Am
G F E
X E7 E7
Repeat

For example we can map that as:
1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
10 11 12

In this case many falsetas or phrases begin at 11 (or 5 in half compas cases), and all phrases end at 9 with remate answers accenting 11. Often there are typical ending lead ins for cante starting on 5 ending on 9 then remate 11. These phrases, be it alzapua picado or arpegios, typically descend down the scale from 5-9 but might have a lead in or pick up to count 5.

A very common one por medio is to play i-a-i rasgueado on A A Bb golpe (1-4) then siguiriyas typical phrase from 5-9, then solea type remate 9 10 11... leading in to cante.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2019 15:22:32
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to Stu

hi Stu,

quote:

Does Fandango de huelva have a set structure or is it flexible??


you don't say what context - dance choreography/class, singer accompaniment, solo guitar...?

for basic/typical dance class template refer to solo compas and adapt from there.

(I think it's something like 4 verses (each verse is 6x12 beat compas*) with 2x12 beat compas* phrase (ie. E7 A- G F E twice) in between. a little falseta intro and end cante with "hasta italia" or "arrimate")

AFAIK there is no set escobilla section or classic arpegio escobilla falseta. Dancers will often extend the number of compas between the verses to do an extra compas or two of footwork, and sometimes like to throw in a bulerias style llamada between verses too. If there is an extended section of footwork you could adapt trad falseta/s.

As well as the half compas first line of letra (see Ricardo post above) singers will often extend the end of the letras. PDL extends letras with picado runs in solos eg. Punta Umbria and Aires Choqueros.

*btw altho i refer to "12 beat compas", if i actually need to count it I count in 6's.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2019 16:11:58
 
JasonM

Posts: 935
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to Leñador

quote:

Here’s my count for FDH
Boom tatata tatata boom tatata rest.


Mine is 3/4. It is the most boring thing to play in dance class unless your good and can spice it up to stay awake
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 19 2019 23:41:22
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to JasonM

quote:

It is the most boring thing to play in dance class unless your good and can spice it up to stay awake


a few spice options (these ideas work for most other palos too, just change the compas and chord sequences accordingly):

1 Play the standard E7 A- G F E compas/phrase all over the fretboard using different chord shapes/inversions in different positions (use CAGED system).

2 Add secondary dominants to the standard compas/phrase to make a longer phrase, and substitute one round of that for 2 x the normal pattern (ie. instead of E7 A- G F E twice play E7 A- D7 G C7 F F7(b5) E once).

3 Play the phrase from spice option 2 in the positions and with the inversions/shapes from spice option 1.

4 Add little fills within the compas, such as picado, pulgar, arpegio or alzapua starting say on beat 4 and ending/resolving on beat 9 (counting the standard compas/phrase like this:

[EDIT: trying to make the numbers correspond to correct chord]

1_2__3_4_5__6__7 8 9 10 11 12
E E7 Am X Am Am G F E X E7 E7

5 Play a longer fill starting on beat 11 of the first of two compases between verses, and ending on beat 9 of the second compas

6 If there's no singer in the class play letras from your favourite solo, or make up your own.

7 Find a more interesting dance teacher to play for. One of the two I play for is ex-Antonio Canales company and is NEVER boring!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2019 15:09:36
 
Stu

Posts: 1602
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the east end of it), England

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to mark indigo

Guys thanks for the responses.
Yeah mark. I'm rejoining a dance class that I haven't played for for a while due to babies and life. They have been working on fdh and whilst I know and have played fdh for another dancer on the past, I don't want turn up not knowing what they're doing. But from what I'm hearing it might be ok that I 'don't know' and that's what I'm trying to work out.

Regarding counts...
The other thing that frys my mind a bit is that the teacher counts in 12. Starting on 12. So my first change to Am happens on count 2. (I think) And I can't handle that! 😄
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2019 9:44:33
 
Stu

Posts: 1602
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the east end of it), England

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to Stu

Mark nice suggestions cheers.

The teacher is one of the best dancers in London on my opinion and definitely exciting. So don't ever think I'm bored in his classes.


quote:


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
E E7 Am X Am Am G F E X E7 E7


Damm this websites formatting!!! 😄
Luckily I know how that's meant to look.Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2019 11:28:03
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to Stu

quote:

Regarding counts...
The other thing that frys my mind a bit is that the teacher counts in 12. Starting on 12. So my first change to Am happens on count 2. (I think) And I can't handle that! 😄


Don't listen to them!!!

Yeah, I have come across that. Ultimately I don't think it really matters how anyone counts, just so long as you play the right chord at the right time, which in most classes most of the time is pretty obvious cos all the students are bashing away on the accents.

Try to get away from counting, and just anchor everything to your foot tap and then they can count whatever they like and it doesn't matter!

If I don't know the choreo I just keep it all really simple anyway.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2019 16:27:42
 
Stu

Posts: 1602
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the east end of it), England

RE: Fdh structure (in reply to mark indigo

Yeah good advice..
Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2019 17:32:05
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