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Elite Guitarist - Flamenco Track
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himanshu.g
Posts: 42
Joined: Jun. 9 2016
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 RE: Elite Guitarist - Flamenco Track (in reply to Ricardo)
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regarding pulgar..
at least three pros on their lessons have said that the power/attack comes from wrist .. Gerardo Nunez, Oscar Herrero and now Antonio Rey. So, I am pretty sure Antonio Rey did not say that by mistake. That said, Antonio Rey does look like using his thumb joint alot ( clear view in https://youtu.be/UKvtOWYtpS0?t=129 and https://youtu.be/UKvtOWYtpS0?t=142 ). But probably thumb joint getting used is because of general philosophy of keeping hand relaxed and let other joints (not used for power) flex if they want to.
probably in certain situations, deliberately using thumb joint is necessary when you are anchoring. see next.
another topic is whether to anchor or not (i.e. anchoring one or more RH fingers at sound board or 1st string) . it "looks" like everyone anchors most of the time but in reality the advice I hear is to not anchor most of the time and what looks like anchoring is really not.
Ricardo has said many words of wisdom on foro and here is what I dug from the past.
Summary: Anchoring is sometimes OK.
Ricardo:
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"Often times you do golpes (ring or ring and middle) along with your pulgar to emphasize certain notes percussively. After the golpe you can keep your fingers on the board sort of as an "anchor" but it really depends on how you are attacking the strings. This works only if you are moving just the thumb. (Watch parilla and m. Morao for example). If you are doing something that requires your wrist to move or even your arm to move, then anchoring is not possible.
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Ref: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=93538&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=pulgar%2Canchor&tmode=&smode=&s=#94395
Summary: It might look like that people always anchor but it is ...well ... complicated.
Ricardo:
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Simply put, there are MANY different ways it can be done so you need a wide sampling.
Here at 5:04 the index appears to "dangle" or tickle the first or second string, but it is not being used other than to be in position for the ending arpegio where we finally hear those strings played, they are dangling sympathetically due to the wrist movement:
http://youtu.be/JZrN8khfz30
Here 10:18 again we see the fingers close to the strings dangling (a bit lower as pulgar is on 3 and 4th strings) but not touching/playing them as wrist is being used to drive thumb:
http://youtu.be/yBGMZ0D_c04
THere will be many different orientations of the technique and the fingers might end up anchored to a string in preparation for USE, so you end up with a complex mix of pulgar/index/alzapua all at once.....it will depend on the specific falseta. Here is one at :55 is a mix of stuff, there are a couple up strokes with P that make it alzapua at times, you can notice the index keeps out of the way but touching the 1st string at times but not ever "anchored".
http://youtu.be/fe8-P3Weiuc
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Ref: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=283275&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#283275
Also, all of the above Maestros mentioned above have practiced thousands of hours and they can play brilliantly without following any of the "rules" , if there are any :)
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Date May 21 2019 5:04:34
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szvarga
Posts: 58
Joined: Mar. 11 2019
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RE: Elite Guitarist - Flamenco Track (in reply to himanshu.g)
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quote:
Also, all of the above Maestros mentioned above have practiced thousands of hours and they can play brilliantly without following any of the "rules" , if there are any :)
I think, there are only one "rule" after all. Play comfortable, with sound good and clear. (Ok, maybe it's more than a single one...)
And how you achieve it... anchoring or not, planting or not, use your wrist or use your thumb... your picado is im or am, your rasgueado is with a or with am or whatever... how you sitting, how you hold your guitar...
If it's sounds good and it's sound clear, and it's comfortable to play that is a perfect technique - for the one who's playing.
Of course, there are some rule of thumbs, what works more or less for the majority of us. But we are not the same anatomically, different fingers, different nails... we aren't using the same guitar with the same strings, and so on... There are many, many variations. And so there are many perfect techniques.
Sz
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Date May 21 2019 14:36:08
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kitarist
Posts: 1721
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
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RE: Elite Guitarist - Flamenco Track (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Those video links seem to have expired sadly. When used for educational purposes it’s really frustrating Aspect of the double edged sword called “youtube”.
I found one in the web archive; the one this comment is about:
"Here at 5:04 the index appears to "dangle" or tickle the first or second string, but it is not being used other than to be in position for the ending arpegio where we finally hear those strings played, they are dangling sympathetically due to the wrist movement:"
https://web.archive.org/web/20161126151803/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZrN8khfz30
(You have to copy and paste the entire link in a browser (had to do it this way to avoid the foro software sending to youtube directly, which results in "video not available")
The video is "Paco de Lucia - Solea (HQ from TVI London); Paco de Lucia - Solea (High Quality from TVI-London-1976). It is a mix of "Plaza Alta" and "Cuando Canta El Gallo" ", and is 5:16 long, so the reference at 5:04 is almost at the end.
The second video has not been archived, unfortunately.
The third video seems to have a month worth of daily archived copies, but any I clicked on said it is not archived. However, one can at least see what it was:
"Paco de Lucia - Bulerias.wmv; La Guitarra flamenca de Paco de Lucia, Bulerias.
Add-on recording Constantin Sharoudin, St.Peterbourg, Russia"
I feel like I've seen that name "bulerias.wmv" on a PdL video but cannot find it at the moment.
_____________________________
Konstantin
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Date May 21 2019 17:21:49
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3437
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Elite Guitarist - Flamenco Track (in reply to kitarist)
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Now that we're pronating and supinating, I'll mention a different aspect of the Elite Guitarist site.
Watching Kai Narezo on a different channel, I decided my rasgueados might profit from modernization. Narezo demonstrated by resting the right thumb parallel to the soundboard, distal joint flexed, on the upper side of the sixth string, and flicking the fingers against the thumb. Sounded pretty good.
When I tried it the way Narezo did it, it didn't work. My right thumbnail rested on the string, not the flesh of the right thumb, and it made the whole setup unstable.
My thumbs are about twice as broad as Narezo's, so the right nail needs to be longer than his.
On Elite Guitiarist, Jose Tanaka teaches rasgueado. He demonstrates the way Narezo does it, then says, "Don't do that. Do this." He pronates a little further, hooks his thumb between the string and the sound board, and flicks. I tried that. It worked for me. It lifts the fingers a little bit so they don't catch on "upstrokes."
(Pronation: Hold you hand with the palm inward, parallel to your belly.. Rotate the upper arm so the thumb goes closer to your belly. That's pronation, supination is the other way. The term refers to the direction of rotation, not the starting position.)
I've got a ways to go before I get back up to speed on bulerias, but I feel like it's going to work--and sound better.
Trouble is, Sabicas and Niño Ricardo are starting to sound a little mushy. 
The Tanaka video is a free sample. I haven't signed up for the $30/month deal.
RNJ
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Date May 23 2019 0:24:53
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(ok a bit unfair comparison) 