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jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

guitar without strings for months 

so my guitar hasn't been with strings for a couple of months now and yesterday it got strung up again. I noticed that the trebles have weakened a little in the high registers. is that normal? does the top lose its flexibility when it's not under tension for such a long time? does the guitar need to "wake up" again? or is that not the case?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2019 21:12:13
 
RobF

Posts: 252
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

I think it’s normal. The top doesn’t lose its flexibility or anything, it’s just that the whole instrument, strings and all, has to tighten up again. Most likely in a day or so it should be back to its old self.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2019 22:02:52
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1423
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

It is totally normal, you have to play it “in” again.

Better to tune your guitar down a bit, ( one note every string for exmple)and keep a a bit of tension on the strings when you put it away for a longer time.

A little rumba and buleria for a week and it is ok.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2019 23:17:57
 
flyeogh

Posts: 458
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to gerundino63

I think there is something special how wood reacts to change, even after many years of being stable.

I remember here, on the foro in 2004 I think, discussions on how you should change three strings, and then the other three to avoid leaving the guitar for even seconds not under stress.

Anders responded asking "How do you think we build them? With strings on ".

Of course RobertJ mentioned on another thread yesterday how a guitar came to life in a little over a week. So I guess somewhere between two weeks and a couple of minutes is sufficient time to expect a change.

Maybe guitars should be legally classified as living

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2019 7:43:56
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

thank you guys, you help me worry less but there's one final question: is it then also normal that the trebles sound a little plasticky/tight right now? is that normally the case with say a freshly built guitar? my guitar took some time to open up according to her builder, so it might take a little longer for her to open up again. no? 😅

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2019 14:54:02
 
RobF

Posts: 252
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

That might be the strings or maybe the guitar is a little dry (or humid) from storage. Leaving it with no strings like you did isn’t going to harm it, so the guitar should be fine, you didn’t damage it. Maybe give it a few more days and if it still doesn’t sound right to you then try swapping out the trebles, in case they are the problem.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2019 23:49:17
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

okay rob,

first a little backstory: my guitar had to have its top refinished because there was a greyish tint in the shellac that my guitarmaker friend didn't like, that's why it didn't have strings for so long. when I got it back it sounded weird. now:

I bought several luthier 20 sets from all over the internet, all the music stores here didn't have them in stock for whatever reason... the first set that arrived yesterday (the one on the right) disappointed me, because it sounds just like the one already installed. today another one arrived and the packaging was different... especially the trebles were packaged differently, I attached a picture.
the ones on the left are apparently all made in USA, the font and the packaging style is a little different. the ones on the right have a little asterisk over "USA", saying that these trebles are made somewhere else. the trebles from the package on the right sounded and felt a lot denser and too much like plastic. the ones on the left made me happy again. nothing wrong with my baby.

without your hint i would have never found out there are US and EU luthier strings.

i love you rob



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2019 17:44:14
 
JasonM

Posts: 911
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

Interesting. The sets I’ve been getting from Strings by Mail are the package on the right. Didn’t realize they outsourced. Been using them the last couple of years but just switched back to La Bella. You should email Luthier and tell them your observations
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2019 21:58:11
 
kitarist

Posts: 546
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

Interesting. The sets I’ve been getting from Strings by Mail are the package on the right. Didn’t realize they outsourced. Been using them the last couple of years but just switched back to La Bella. You should email Luthier and tell them your observations


The strings I got from Strings by Mail are the one on the left :-) (the smaller packaging).

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2019 23:15:05
 
RobF

Posts: 252
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

Thanks Jalal :) I’m glad it worked out.

I ran into a bad batch of the 20’s a couple of years ago, with buzzing, dull sound, and intonation problems with the trebles. I stopped using them because of that. They were like the pack on the left. Hopefully they can resolve their issues.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2019 0:17:57
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11074
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

quote:

first a little backstory: my guitar had to have its top refinished because


Oh, a minor detail you forgot to include that went along with “changing your strings” . Dull sound could be due to thicker finish, or humidity getting in there. Let the guitar dry for a week or two and then check the trebles again.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2019 16:46:18
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

maybe I should write them a mail. i'll give it a thought.

ricardo, the odd thing was that the basses were completely fine, the trebles even felt weird when playing, aside from the weird sound. when the finish is done incorrectly the whole guitar would have to sound off, which it didn't. now the guitar sounds just like it used to, so it should be fine 😊

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 27 2019 23:59:49
 
JasonM

Posts: 911
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From: Baltimore

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to kitarist

Thats not fair. The pack on the left has a gold “high quality strings” sticker so they must be better. Also Paco might not approve of his picture being on the back of the package to the right.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2019 0:04:34
 
kitarist

Posts: 546
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

Thats not fair. The pack on the left has a gold “high quality strings” sticker so they must be better. Also Paco might not approve of his picture being on the back of the package to the right.


Huh? Your post said you are replying to me. What did I say that was not fair?

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2019 0:41:32
 
JasonM

Posts: 911
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to kitarist

Not fair that Strings by mail sends me the “bad” made over seas sets of strings ;)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2019 4:02:12
 
kitarist

Posts: 546
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

Not fair that Strings by mail sends me the “bad” made over seas sets of strings ;)


Ah-haha I see. For what it's worth, I had ordered several different sets of trebles - 20s, 30s, titanium and two tension of supercarbon 101s, and didn't like any of them on my guitar, compared to the high tension Savarez fluorocarbon (Alliance) trebles. So I'm none the happier from getting all the nice strings

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 28 2019 21:51:04
 
kitarist

Posts: 546
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

For what it's worth, I had ordered several different sets of Luthier trebles - 20s, 30s, titanium and two tension of supercarbon 101s, and didn't like any of them on my guitar, compared to the high tension Savarez fluorocarbon (Alliance) trebles. So I'm none the happier from getting all the nice strings



BTW, if anyone wants these Luthier strings (I can recheck to see how many are complete treble sets), I can mail them likely for free, especially if within North America. The strings are free; I just mean the postal costs may be more than minimal if beyond the continent. I don't think there is anything wrong with the strings per se; they just don't go with my guitar for some reason.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2019 21:03:03
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1341
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

I use Luthier Popular Supreme 20s too and the latest batch I bought (12 sets) look like your photos on the right and I find them a little less likeable than the kind I had before that were packaged like your photos on the left. I got them from StringsByMail.com

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2019 3:46:23
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

I just don't wanna lose my status as a flamenco surf member

yeah so..my guitar is completely fine again, which is great. problem is, I need a new good set with a good and not too fat G string. also, I'm a little reluctant about hitting luthier up with the problem, because it seems they sell the new sets in the US too, not only in europe. so they might not even care about the thing with the trebles.

what do you think about hannabach strings? is there a difference between the normal and the flamenco sets? I would try these out and maybe try again la bella 2001. I might also have a look at d'addario ej45. what do you use?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2019 13:03:55
 
Argaith

Posts: 431
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

quote:

I might also have a look at d'addario ej45


I fell out with D'Addario EJ45; I found them dull sounding on my guitars (Anders & HSL).

I use La Bella 820 Flamenco. If I can find them, I prefer the red trebles if not black is just as good.

A

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2019 14:25:20
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

i don't like these colored trebles, I like them plain 🙁 meh

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My name is Jalal.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2019 16:18:55
 
kitarist

Posts: 546
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to Argaith

quote:

ORIGINAL: Argaith

quote:

I might also have a look at d'addario ej45


I fell out with D'Addario EJ45; I found them dull sounding on my guitars (Anders & HSL).

I use La Bella 820 Flamenco.

A


D'Addarios sound dull on mine too, so I never use them anymore. I have tried several - my favourites are Savarez carbon trebles with Cantiga basses; but La Bella 820 sounded great on the guitar as well. Not much else is in the same ballpark, but it may be different for your guitar (jalalkun).

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2019 16:36:48
 
palosanto

Posts: 8
Joined: Feb. 17 2008
From: Victoria, BC

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

I find any high tension carbons to be too thin and hard on the fingers. I'm using D'Adarios
Dynacore Titanium EJ46TT much better and brighter than plain nylon but easier than carbons on the fingers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2019 19:20:12
 
palosanto

Posts: 8
Joined: Feb. 17 2008
From: Victoria, BC

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

Regarding the effect of having the guitar without strings for along time, the neck release might have decreased slightly without the tension of the strings and the action might also decreased as a consequence. The lower the action the easier to play BUT you loose also some projection (volume). Perhaps this is why you feel the trebles more 'dull' ?
I would think that the tone will come back eventually now that the strings are on.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 22 2019 19:26:39
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

@kitarist I think I'll try out the black hannabach and maybe the knobloch medium high tension nylon strings. maybe labella 2001 again but I remember these to kill the overtones a little. i don't like carbon strings anymore, they're way too bright for my liking and are also a little on the high tension side.

@palosanto this might have been the case, not so sure though. might also be the strings. I'll get some various brands and try them out and see. got no other choice I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 30 2019 19:09:46
 
benros

 

Posts: 134
Joined: Aug. 27 2016
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

Hey Jajal,

try: Pepe Romero Strings Set Glow. A little bit expensive and not very long lasting, but really good sounding strings.

Greetz,
Ben
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 30 2019 23:27:54
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

hi ben, glow is light tension. might look into it and buy medium tension by pepe. i also looked at dogal, is supposed to be great too.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2019 8:21:39
 
benros

 

Posts: 134
Joined: Aug. 27 2016
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

Just the lightest tension in their sortiment, its medium compared to other brands. if you liked luthier 20, try glow and try it first, than you can save you the comparison ;)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 31 2019 10:20:26
 
jalalkun

Posts: 266
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Cologne, Germany

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

I actually wanna try out some harder tension. so I think I'll start off with the medium high knobloch set, and after that the pepe medium set. thanks for the suggestion

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 11 2019 14:22:23
 
David LaPlante

 

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Joined: Mar. 7 2016
 

RE: guitar without strings for months (in reply to jalalkun

If the guitar has picked up humidity it will sound a bit dead. The vibrational energy of the strings into the wood creates heat (think the brakes on your car) which helps to drive off the moisture over time. I think this is the big reason guitars "play in".
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 28 2019 18:00:17
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