RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars

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Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw

On a related note Felipe Conde has recently 'made' a limited run of reproductions of Paco de Lucia's 1975 guitar.

https://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/we-present-the-new-model-of-the-felipe-condes-signature-which-pays-a-homage-to-the-maestro-paco-de-lucia/

https://www.flamencoguitarsforsale.net/en/hermanos-conde-guitars/flamenco-guitar-reed-hermanos-conde-1975-3/

The headstock and rosette slightly different but he got the label EXACTLY right!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 25 2019 22:06:24

conderio

Posts: 37
Joined: Feb. 17 2006

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to conderio)

I see your point and I agree. 4,5 verses 5 sections (soundhole diameter can be different).
So, I assume they made nearly 2 identical guitars in 1975, same rosette, different side graining. Paco tried both and chose one and Ramon played the other one.
Paco's mutated to the one from Mundo Flamenco - the label must have been exchanged too for some reason - for sure it is not the same. Both 75 seemed to be refinished to a more reddish lacquer later on (Not sure about Ramon's one). Paco's finally ended up in a mutation.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2019 11:02:13

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to conderio)

quote:

the label must have been exchanged too for some reason -

It was probably damaged somehow so they used the newer designed label (my 2000 felip v has same lettering but different address) from Gravina and just forged the signature.... just like felipe did with that copy above.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 26 2019 13:33:06

sartorius

Posts: 206
Joined: Mar. 7 2017

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to orsonw)

Reedición of Paco's guitar: a new mustang will never be like the old original one...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2019 8:03:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to sartorius)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sartorius

Reedición of Paco's guitar: a new mustang will never be like the old original one...

Yes but if I had that guitar I would beat it up nicely, paint it red, beat it all to hell again, then refinish it in French polish and change the rosette and label!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2019 16:46:12

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to conderio)

quote:

I guess you can say it’s two different instruments at that point.... but with understanding it’s the same body of wood. Like robocop lol.

This question about whether it is the same guitar or not anymore reminds me of this Only Fools and Horses classic (BBC) :D

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 27 2019 17:32:51

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to conderio)

Hi Conderio,

I was wondering one thing about this beautiful Paco's guitar that you now owe. What is the width* of the neck (or maybe better explained, what is the half-circumference from top to bottom, going around the back side when the thump is placed while playing)?
Also, the width of the body (sides)?

To me looks like the width of a neck is somehow important. I have Jose Ramirez FL1 and I think that the neck is a bit thinner that my first Yamaha classical. Few years ago when I was trying out guitars in Madrid, I found some really nice Condes and I loved the sound, but I thought that the neck was too thick for me.

Cheers

*Or height is maybe a better explanation?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2019 9:34:47

conderio

Posts: 37
Joined: Feb. 17 2006

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to Filip)

Right, many Condes of the 70s & 80s have a thicker neck. This one's neck is 22 mm thick at first fret. I think it's quite comfortable. For sure it is a thinner one - i had older Condes before - there are thicker necks around. At the end it is a matter of taste.

The width of the body is 94 mm at 12th fret.

Best, Ingo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2019 12:21:10

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to Ricardo)

Thanks Conderio.

I see, there are a lot of small variations from guitar to guitar. I guess when it comes to playing, what matters is getting used to one setting or the other, and maybe size and configuration of the left hand.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 31 2019 14:15:02

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

In your close up photo the handwritten '1975' does look different. Also it appears that the printed label itself is different? Have a look at the 'Sobrinos de Esteso' line. It doesn't extend as far, the spacing between letters is different. Also look at the word CONDE the 'C' is larger than 'ONDE'. Compared to label of the 1975 guitar at Mundo Flamenco.

Sorry it’s a long dead horse... but I saw this documentary on Facebook, Japan interview 1990 or so, and they got a nice shot of the label. While the label is different... the center strip brace on the back has matching grain lines.... so the guitar back was not ever changed. They literally changed the label for some reason.

In the interview Paco was shocked when the Japanese guy pointed out the guitar was 15 years old. He had a look himself then admitted “oh yeah, this was my brothers guitar. I had a nice guitar but it was stolen from the car”....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 1 2020 3:56:28

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

For a start, the 1968 guitar was his favorite guitar but not the first, it was stolen in 1979 or 80.

I think Paco is playing his stolen Conde 1968 in this video. Look at 2:15-2:30. I wonder where is this guitar now.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2020 13:37:49

johnguitar

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 10 2006

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to Ricardo)

I know how you guys love it when I resurrect old threads, hahaha. Ricardo could you tell me where this photo comes from and is there a higher quality version? http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/313/Zv67189.jpeg

Thanks so much,

John

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2023 6:51:32

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to johnguitar)

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnguitar

I know how you guys love it when I resurrect old threads, hahaha. Ricardo could you tell me where this photo comes from and is there a higher quality version? http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/313/Zv67189.jpeg

Thanks so much,

John

There are some videos of that show in Russia, 2010 I believe. I bet it was his own guitar, but I realize it is probably NOT the old one he used on Friday Night in Sanfrancisco/Solo quiero Caminar, etc, briefly, after his best guitar was stolen. He must of had an issue with his main guitar which we see used for the rest of the tour. There is a detail in the rosette ring that is different and the color is obviously a darker red finish, almost implying a cedar top. But the sound is so close to the main one I would be very surprised if that was somebody else’s instrument he borrowed for the show. It is certainly of the same stock (ie 1974-6).

I only have the one photo. Perhaps Kitarist could search images in Russian language on line “Paco de Lucia Crocus City Hall 2010”

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2023 12:18:01

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Oct. 12 2023 17:58:29

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2023 17:41:15

johnguitar

Posts: 208
Joined: Jan. 10 2006

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to Ricardo)

Thanks so much Ricardo, that is extremely helpful.

John

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2023 19:46:12

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco de Lucia‘s stage guitars (in reply to johnguitar)

Felipe Conde apparently had this guitar for two years to study/copy. This is the one from rito y Geografia, refinished in red at some point (top only), we also see him singing rumba for his baby daughter Antonia around 2000 in Mexico beach home. I assume this was kept in Mexico and played more than most other guitars. The main identifier (since many of these guitar look the same) is the dark lines on the heel that go against the grain. We see that unique feature in the Rito videos and if you have DVD quality of the Francisco Sanchez doc I described above.