Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira and Philip John Lee who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Paso Doble   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 46
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
 

Paso Doble 

Hi all,

when I was young, handsome and 30kg lighter I used to dance a lot and Paso Doble was one of my favourite dances.

How does that relate to Flamenco?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2019 11:36:22
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10993
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

It’s spanish.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2019 16:09:01
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1439
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Ricardo

lots of traditional dance and song in spain, which is not of flamenco origin, Jota comes to mind.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2019 17:35:31
 
Mark2

Posts: 1456
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

Some paso dobles are played at bullfights. Bullfighting-flamenco connection is well established. My first flamenco teacher taught me a few arrangements of paso dobles that he considered bullfight tunes. Espana Cani was one of them. They were fun and people really seemed to like them. Not exactly puro.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2019 22:07:03
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2541
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

In interviews several flamencos of the mid-20th century were asked which of the images in the Holy Week processions in Seville they might be particularly attached to. They followed the generally perceived preferences of gitanos for La Virgen de la Macarena and "El Dios del Gran Poder."

La Macarena has her own paso doble, played in slow time by the band that accompanies her, to provide a marching cadence for the 48 costaleros who carry her paso on their shoulders. Since her paso doble was transformed into a florid trumpet solo by the great Mexican Rafael Mendez, it became very popular in that country. La Macarena also has her own drum and bugle music played by the corps which marches with her. Before the procession turns into the Calle Sierpes, nearing the Catedral, you hear the band and the drums and bugles approaching. La Macarena pauses in the the Calle Sierpes for a saeta to be sung to her. The drum and bugle music is often heard on recordings of saetas. (The saetas themselves are unaccompanied.)

Here is one of the most popular paso dobles taurinos, "El Gato Montés," well played by the band from a town just south of Valencia:



Though "paso doble" might be translated as "two-step," not all paso dobles are in 2/4 or 4/4 time. "El Relicario" is in 3/4.



RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2019 8:45:46
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2789
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

La Macarena also has her own drum and bugle music played by the corps which marches with her. Before the procession turns into the Calle Sierpes, nearing the Catedral, you hear the band and the drums and bugles approaching. La Macarena pauses in the the Calle Sierpes for a saeta to be sung to her. The drum and bugle music is often heard on recordings of saetas.


Twice in the 1960s and once in 1982, I attended concerts by Carlos Montoya. Carlos always played his version of Saeta, with the drum and bugle music performed on the guitar alone. He accomplished the effect of the drum by crossing the fifth string over the sixth, holding them in that position with the left hand, and with his right hand performing a modified rasgueo that had the tempo and sound of a snare drum. The bugle effect was accomplished on the trebles. It really sounded nice and was always a crowd-pleaser.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2019 23:18:07
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2541
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Mark2

...and here is España Cañi (Gypsy Spain), as mentioned by Mark2. The trumpet fanfare at 1:30 is that which traditionally announces the beginning of the third tercio of the corrida, where the matador faces the bull with sword and small cape (muleta).



RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 0:53:45
 
kitarist

Posts: 485
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Richard Jernigan

In Tom and Jerry Episode 108 - Mucho Mouse (1957), "A Spanish cat is more interested in playing flamenco guitar than trying to catch the mouse El Magnifico (Jerry)..."

From 2:26-2:40 you can hear a paso doble - anyone know what the name of it is?



P.S. you have to go to youtube to watch it.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 1:24:49
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 663
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to kitarist

Loosely based on España Cañí?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 9:25:42
 
flyeogh

Posts: 433
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to kitarist

Yup really enjoyed that. Nothing beats T&M. Thanks.

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 10:23:01
 
kitarist

Posts: 485
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to RobJe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe

Loosely based on España Cañí?


I was hoping it might be an actual separate composition that I can find by its name once I know it. Someone on the delcamp forum is irritating me by refusing to believe that this excerpt can possibly be a paso doble

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 17:07:54
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2541
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to kitarist

RobJe could be on the right track. Pascual Marquina, the composer of España Cañi, lived until 1948. Maybe Hollywood touched the piece up a bit, hoping to avoid copyright problems. But I am by no means a paso doble expert. I just remember a few from corridas in Mexico and Spain.

The fanfare at the end of the Tom & Jerry clip is also altered from the traditional one of the corrida, but i would think the corrida version would be public domain, since I assume it goes back a long time.

It goes back at least to when I was six years old, 75 years ago.😎

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 22:45:45
 
kitarist

Posts: 485
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

España Cañi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

RobJe could be on the right track. Pascual Marquina, the composer of España Cañi, lived until 1948. Maybe Hollywood touched the piece up a bit, hoping to avoid copyright problems. But I am by no means a paso doble expert. I just remember a few from corridas in Mexico and Spain.


Okay, but there is not doubt that excerpt IS a pasodoble - es verdad, amigo?

Wow, I think I just found ALL OF THEM This is a playlist of more than 1700 of "the best brass band pasodobles ordered by popularity" (!!!)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5xAy4Ufl2T7W9KJHMIZ1zsyeKxFWF1WI

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 17 2019 2:49:43
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 663
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

We should have looked at IMDB instead of guessing!
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1780411/

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 17 2019 14:03:20
 
edguerin

Posts: 1494
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to henrym3483

quote:

Jota comes to mind.


Although not of flamenco origin the Jota is one of the foundations of flamenco, and is related to the cantiñas

see here

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2019 18:12:34
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 46
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

thanks all. That is some inspiring feedback..

What would be other bullfighting tunes? Appart from paso doble?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2019 19:40:38
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10993
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to edguerin

quote:

ORIGINAL: edguerin

quote:

Jota comes to mind.


Although not of flamenco origin the Jota is one of the foundations of flamenco, and is related to the cantiñas

see here


Always heard or read this. I played some jota for dancer students with a bandurria player in my early training period. After understanding more completely the cantiñas family of melodies I still after years can not figure out How in the hell jota is related AT ALL!!! I mean other than the superficial fact of a major key melody and see saw V-I harmony I still don’t get it. Somebody please show me a jota that has melodic parts of the Alegrias, Romeras, Cantiñas, anything... please!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2019 15:46:11
 
edguerin

Posts: 1494
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

Well, Faustino Nuñez says:
quote:

La jota tiene un rítmica muy particular que se trasvasaron al flamenco en forma de patrones que se usan una y otra vez. Sin embargo fue en lo melódico y armónico (en los acordes de la guitarra) donde ha dejado una huella más profunda, en las cantiñas nominadas alegrías. En la melodía flamenca la jota dejó su marca en el cante por alegrías, que adaptó muchas melodías joteras, mientras se fundían con el aire de los jaleos gaditanos. Las alegrías no son otra cosa que jotas adaptadas al compás de la soleá al golpe, aflamencando la melodía cantable y con aire bailable.

He underlines this with:
this audio clip
Which sounds convincing enough to me (but of course I'm no expert)

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2019 9:06:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10993
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to edguerin

quote:

ORIGINAL: edguerin

Well, Faustino Nuñez says:
quote:

La jota tiene un rítmica muy particular que se trasvasaron al flamenco en forma de patrones que se usan una y otra vez. Sin embargo fue en lo melódico y armónico (en los acordes de la guitarra) donde ha dejado una huella más profunda, en las cantiñas nominadas alegrías. En la melodía flamenca la jota dejó su marca en el cante por alegrías, que adaptó muchas melodías joteras, mientras se fundían con el aire de los jaleos gaditanos. Las alegrías no son otra cosa que jotas adaptadas al compás de la soleá al golpe, aflamencando la melodía cantable y con aire bailable.

He underlines this with:
this audio clip
Which sounds convincing enough to me (but of course I'm no expert)


At best it starts like buleria de Cadiz, then diverges a lot. “Dicen que van a poner...” matches the opening melody, then it’s really different. But non of the 3 Alegrias melodies nor cantiñas “tiri tiri tran tran”, “cuando andando...” etc, romeras “zarzamora”, mirabras, pinini, Alegrias de Cordoba “preguntale platero”, caracoles.... non of that stuff is even close IMO.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2019 16:56:02
 
joselito_fletan

 

Posts: 129
Joined: Jan. 24 2017
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

It's carnaval in Cadiz, and "El Selu" has left this little paso doble for all the baldies out there

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2019 22:08:11
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 46
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to joselito_fletan

awesome... great idea to use a kazoo as some sort of trumpet impersonator :-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2019 11:30:49
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.0625 secs.