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flyeogh

Posts: 447
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

Replacing Gotoh tuners 

Very good messages to all and festive cheer.

I was here in 2005, and with much ecouragement from the members here, I became the proud owner of an Ander's flamenco blanca. I picked it up from Anders in his village near to Granada. Still the most treasured thing I own.

Anyway it has Gotoh tuners and one of the threads has gone. My questions are:

Will Gotoh tuners today have the fixing holes in the same place?
Is there a risk removing the screws and fixing new ones might make the holes bigger and thus create some movement? (hope that makes sense).
Should I put some glue or filler in to get a secure fix?
Should I take it to a professional?

Any thoughts very welcome.

ps: Anders if you're around I'm now in Cadiz. Are you still in Huelva?

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 16:40:21
 
flyeogh

Posts: 447
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RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

A foto:



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Attachment (1)

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 17:29:32
 
Escribano

Posts: 5846
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

quote:

Anders if you're around I'm now in Cadiz. Are you still in Huelva?


He went back to Denmark.

They rarely fit exactly. I plugged my holes with matchsticks and glue, sanded down. Then if you have to drill again and it overlaps a little, no harm is done. Warning though, I am not a luthier.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 17:57:14
 
flyeogh

Posts: 447
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RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Escribano

Escribano many thanks for that.

As we are talking my precious baby I'm thinking I may look to have it done by a pro. If I screwed it up I'd have to shoot myself. And as you know labour costs are not that much here.

I can see the matchstick-fill-hole approach should work but I'm an IT guy, not a craftsman

Cheers

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 18:08:56
 
Marchito

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Aug. 12 2018
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

It’s an easy DIY job if you buy the right replacement set. No need to fill the holes or such, they have no pressure so they don’t have to be snug fit. By the way, are you sure those are Gotoh? Look like Sloan to me...

Found them: https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Classical_Guitar_Tuning_Machines/Sloane_Classical_Machines_with_Leaf_Bronze_Baseplates.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 18:35:09
 
Marchito

 

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Joined: Aug. 12 2018
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

Btw, what’s exactly wrong with your tuners? It isn’t normal that a thread gets ruined after only 5 years... can you post a pic? Maybe there is an easy (cheaper) fix.. also, if Anders can tell you where he got supplied, there is a good chance you’ll get a spare part for free (Stewmac does that).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 18:44:01
 
RobF

Posts: 220
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

I agree with Marchito, pretty well with everything he’s suggesting.

Those are high-end tuners so it would be a shame to replace them if the problem is repairable.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 18:56:29
 
Escribano

Posts: 5846
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

quote:

I can see the matchstick-fill-hole approach should work but I'm an IT guy, not a craftsman


Me too and I did it on a cheap Bernal, not my Anders blanca.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 19:21:42
 
Escribano

Posts: 5846
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Marchito

quote:

It isn’t normal that a thread gets ruined after only 5 years


FYI, it's 13 years.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 19:23:26
 
Marchito

 

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RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Escribano

My gosh, time flies so fast ;))
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 19:29:31
 
RobF

Posts: 220
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Marchito

quote:

It isn’t normal that a thread gets ruined after only 5 years...


I’ve seen threads on this Foro get ruined after only a couple of days...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 19:54:49
 
flyeogh

Posts: 447
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Escribano

Well muchas gracias a todo.

Anders, in those distant days, offered an upgrade on the tuners which I took (about 100 Euros I think but Euros were less pounds than now). So thanks Machito for finding those as I had Gotoh's stuck in my mind. Clearly the 100 Euros upgraded the Gotohs to Sloanes. They are somewhat more than I thought. Over 300$!!!

As for the damage if I tighten the High E string there is a click just before it meets the required tension and it drops back one notch. Doesn't happen all the time.

I wouldn't want to claim on a guarantee after 13 years as I suspect at some point the string was over tightened or something like that. (I believe that due to a guilty face. Please be assured the person still lives - they just walk with a limp ).

But obviously at that price I think I'll have a chat with a local luthier and see what he thinks. Even if it breaks while being adjusted nothing lost.

As I say very grateful for the info and a very happy new year to you all.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 20:00:08
 
Marchito

 

Posts: 12
Joined: Aug. 12 2018
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

Well, I’d suggest you can the tuners off, dismantle it, clean it, grease it and put it back. Sometimes a little bit of dirt can cause big problem with tuners. It’s unlikely that the steel got ruined. Maybe just a loose screw (the one which keeps the peg attached to the brass plate). It’s like a bug in the code, small thing making big impact. Just debug it. :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 20:08:41
 
RobF

Posts: 220
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

quote:

if I tighten the High E string there is a click just before it meets the required tension and it drops back one notch.


This might be a bit of a long shot, but one thing you could also check is how the string looks (and feels) at the point where it exits the nut. If a sharp edge develops on the nut it can bite into the string and grab it, and also shred it over time. The fix there is to lightly round off the rough edge of the nut (and replace the damaged string).
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 20:44:09
 
gbv1158

 

Posts: 384
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

You may contact Anders on His blog:
http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com

ciao, Giambattista
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2018 21:31:03
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1320
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Marchito

quote:

are you sure those are Gotoh? Look like Sloan to me...


I agree, they look like Sloane tuners, sold by stewmac.com which has pretty good service. I bet they could help you repair them.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2018 2:23:49
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1408
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Escribano

Toothpicks are ok, but better are cocktail picks, the one with two sharp sides where you put cheese and an onion or an olive with on parties. The wood is harder.
I saw do Otto Vowinkel, a respected luthier do it in his taller. He used no glue, and a sharp chisel to cut it off.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2018 8:29:14
 
flyeogh

Posts: 447
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to gerundino63

Great timing gerundino63. While the rest are celebrating tonight I will raid the buffet for those very sticks

But first I've try the clean and lubricate route. Just played (I use the term lightly ) and no problem. However there does seem a little movement on the high E screw.

I'll report back but in the meantime a very happy celebration to all.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2018 10:05:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11036
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

I learned the hard way that machines need to be changed after some time. My new rule is if I am changing the tap plate a second time, it’s also time for new tuners. I have a couple guitars of course, each in various stages of wear. If one key is worn out, you dont’ want to fix just that one key. I mean I might do that if I were taking off one guitar and transferring to another that I don’t change strings on as often. But if it’s my main guitar, they wore out from how many thousands of string changes I have done, so chances are some other key and gear will be right around the corner for burn out. If this is your main guitar just get a new set, perhaps keep this and try to fix them at some later time as a back up set or for a different guitar in the future.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2018 18:05:25
 
RobF

Posts: 220
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

Just my opinion, but before you spend a cent replacing things it might be prudent to first check the screw holding the crown gear to the roller and tighten it if it’s loose. Don’t reef on it, just snug it up. These screws are often originally attached with loc-tite but with time they can work loose. It doesn’t hurt to check them periodically.

Lubricating the worm gear is good, too, but just a little dab will do, the lubricant should be sparse enough to be invisible and the worm gear assembly should look clean. Too much jell-type lubricant can attract dust and dirt.

I think Stew-Mac was offering a lifetime warranty on these things up until recently. Maybe they still offer it. If that’s the case, contacting Anders would be the next step. I don’t want to put words into his mouth but I wouldn’t be surprised if he asks you to first snug up any loose crown gear screws and check the nut for rough edges. If he feels the tuners are defective you might have to ask him to contact Stew-mac and give them the receipt number or a rough idea of the purchase date and then you would return the tuners to them for checking. Of course, they’ll probably ask him the same questions, too.

If you disassemble the tuners, breaking all the loc-tite and possibly mucking up the screw heads in the process, there is a good chance any warranty will be voided and you will be out of luck with Stew-Mac. If you don’t get the reassembly right you might ruin an expensive piece of gear or end up having something with a compromised performance.

I agree with Ricardo that these things do wear. But Ricardo is a pro and he probably does a heck of a lot more string changes than your average player. He likely tunes a lot more too because his gigging guitars experience changing environments day in and day out. The worms and crown gears don’t look worn in the picture you posted, but a side shot of the gear assembly would give a better idea. I suspect that if there is a problem it might be with the roller and that could be a warranty issue.

Finally, if you do bring it somewhere to get the tuners replaced it would be prudent to ask them to remove the Sloanes while you’re there and take them home with you. You might be able to get them repaired by Stew-Mac for a reasonable price and then have a nice set of spares. Those engraved brass plates are gorgeous and have a lovely patina to them. They are worth keeping. Just don’t assume they will be returned with the guitar when you pick it up. I know that sounds cynical, but the cynicism comes hard earned.

At any rate, as I said, just my opinion, I hope it all works out for the best. It sounds like you love your guitar, so it deserves to be in prime operating condition.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 1 2019 0:51:27
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11036
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to RobF

quote:

He likely tunes a lot more too because his gigging guitars experience changing environments day in and day out.


I’ve spent half my career tuning my guitars.... and the other half playing out of tune!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 1 2019 23:12:53
 
RobF

Posts: 220
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

I’ve spent half my career tuning my guitars.... and the other half playing out of tune!


  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 2 2019 23:18:41
 
flyeogh

Posts: 447
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

Quick update. Cleaned and a quarter turn of screw that goes through to the barrel (see foto). There is still very slight movement but I don't want to over do it. However, so far no problem tuning.

Think I'll see if I can get a screw and barrel. In the mean time I'll see how it goes. I do have two reserve guitars so won't be left guitar-less if it goes wrong.

Didn't trouble Anders with this but received a brief message from him so he is alive and hopefully well.

Again thanks for the help. And Ricardo for the laugh.

ps: Just a thought - is anyone in possession of an older Anders?





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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 3 2019 18:00:25
 
Escribano

Posts: 5846
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

quote:

Just a thought - is anyone in possession of an older Anders?


Mine was started in 2006. The first with an olive-wood rosette and a pink label.

So I think you have a pretty old one.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 3 2019 18:10:28
 
flyeogh

Posts: 447
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RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Escribano

Escribano no idea. It was November 2005 when I picked it up. And yes I remember thinking I'd have preferred the Olive design when I saw it a few months later. But the old zig-zag still looks pretty good. Does yours get played much? You being a man of many guitars

I'm no expert but I think mine has mellowed a bit with age. A few minor dings as you'd expect but hopefully it will see me out and even give a few years pleasure to my niece. Although at the moment she has her eyes on my Alhambra 10f (She knows the Anders is only over my dead body - literally



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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 3 2019 18:27:50
 
Escribano

Posts: 5846
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

quote:

Does yours get played much? You being a man of many guitars


Nope, I use the Bernal for messing about, so it is pretty much pristine in its case. Will sell it soon as I don't play much flamenco anymore.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 3 2019 18:34:48
 
flyeogh

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RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to Escribano

Well I know more than one of you suggested StewMac would go beyond the call of duty, and they have.

I made it clear to them that I felt the issue was user abuse and that I was more than pleased after 13 happy years. I asked about parts as opposed to a whole tuner.

They instantly responded offering to replace the whole tuner for free so that I could have many more happy years.

Now that is the best customer service, and best confidence shown in one’s product, I have ever seen in my long life.

I just had to buy a StewMac coffee mug and T-shirt – both I will use with pride. Of course if the t-shirt deteriorates in the next 13 years I’ll be right back to them.


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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 4 2019 11:29:31
 
JasonM

Posts: 874
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

Wow that is amazing service! Don’t see that much these days
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 5 2019 2:32:22
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1320
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to flyeogh

Told you.


Wait, did you really have to buy a shirt and mug?

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 0:32:28
 
flyeogh

Posts: 447
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Replacing Gotoh tuners (in reply to constructordeguitarras

quote:

Wait, did you really have to buy a shirt and mug?


No, there were no strings attached

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 6 2019 7:31:57
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