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Two versions of intro to PdL's Barrio La Vina   You are logged in as Guest
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kitarist

Posts: 380
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

Two versions of intro to PdL's Barri... 

I found a PdL video a while ago where at 1:35 he starts playing the intro to Barrio La Vina, and continues with a mixture of Barrio La Vina and other alegrias (click the text link above to get straight to that point in the vid):



This comment is about the first part of the intro, which in the studio recording is six measures long (followed by another 8 measures of the descending to Emaj - Emin sequences - to see what I mean see the image below - then the tremolo section).

(Terminology for this post: Let's say a measure is a quarter compas, 2 measures - a half compas or a 6-compas, 4 measures - a full compas or a 12-compas.)

I don't have issues with half- and quarter- compases. For example, Guajiras de Lucia has that famous extra measure (quarter compas), but it makes total sense musically why it is there (why a partial compas is there).

Interestingly, in this Barrio La Vina example it is sort-of the opposite situation - the 'extra' half compas makes the intro square, however, it also sounds great musically in terms of the phrasing - if you hear the studio recording after hearing the video, it is as if something is missing melodically (you'll see what I mean):

In the video above, PdL plays an extra half-compas-long musical phrase, so now the first part of the intro becomes 8 measures long (square). My issue now is that after hearing how well it fits in the way the musical 'story' unfolds, I don't understand why it was omitted in the studio recording.

When you hear and see it in the video, you will hopefully also feel how it is like the response or transition from the calling of measures 5-6 (in way similar to how measures 1-2 and 3-4 had a call-response relationship).

So now when you hear again the studio recording, doesn't the transition from measures 5-6 to the 2 compases of descending to Emaj - Emin sequences now sound stranger? Right? or no? I mean, I can live with both versions, but was struck at how the video version seemed more complete musically (nothing to do with the squaredness rhythm-wise).

Was this a conscious choice for the studio recording (I can't imagine it was anything else - it is not as if he would forget the composition (?)) But why? What can I (we) learn from this artistic choice?



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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 20 2018 0:06:34
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10830
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to kitarist

The video is 8 or more years later. He added the music to square it imo. Personally I liked how it holds on the B chord then goes to inverted A maj.... so I personally would have done the added measure FIRST, and moved up to play the original phrase as the answer.

Also you mentioned the Guajiras, which actually is a half compas situation not quarter compas... remember it is super up tempo.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 20 2018 4:11:08
 
kitarist

Posts: 380
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

The video is 8 or more years later. He added the music to square it imo.


Ah. I didn't know whether to believe the '1981' designation, but if so, then you are probably right.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Also you mentioned the Guajiras, which actually is a half compas situation not quarter compas... remember it is super up tempo.


Yes, you are right. I forgot that in that transcription the eighth note gets the count. For others, I was referring to this :


It even has 'half compas' written over it, in Ramzi's suspiciously-legible writing (for a medical doctor)



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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 20 2018 17:23:08
 
rombsix

Posts: 6702
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to kitarist

quote:

It even has 'half compas' written over it, in Ramzi's suspiciously-legible writing (for a medical doctor)




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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 20 2018 17:56:35
 
kitarist

Posts: 380
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to rombsix

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

It even has 'half compas' written over it, in Ramzi's suspiciously-legible writing (for a medical doctor)





But what do you think about the different versions of the intro to Barrio La Vina? Which one do you like best - the original audio; the version in the video, or Ricardo's version of adding the extra measures before what is now measures 5-6?

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2018 5:59:20
 
rombsix

Posts: 6702
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to kitarist

quote:

But what do you think about the different versions of the intro to Barrio La Vina? Which one do you like best - the original audio; the version in the video, or Ricardo's version of adding the extra measures before what is now measures 5-6?


The original.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2018 13:16:16
 
kitarist

Posts: 380
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to rombsix

Anyone else?

(and where is everyone? I hope you are reading, if not replying... )

I am "jealous" of the voluminous discussions from the 2000s. A sense of camaraderie and a shared purpose and enthusiasm... it seems a lot of people have moved away or too busy. Or not interested in PdL stuff anymore, or interested but worked it out long ago. Ricardo is on response duty these days, for which I am very thankful.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2018 22:58:54
 
rombsix

Posts: 6702
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to kitarist

quote:

Ricardo is on response duty these days, for which I am very thankful.


Hey, what about me? My responses may be useless, but perhaps better than no response!

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2018 23:28:11
 
kitarist

Posts: 380
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to rombsix

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Ricardo is on response duty these days, for which I am very thankful.


Hey, what about me? My responses may be useless, but perhaps better than no response!


Yes of course! Sorry!! Though I did wring the last one out of you

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 21 2018 23:40:09
 
rombsix

Posts: 6702
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to kitarist

quote:

Though I did wring the last one out of you


True

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 22 2018 2:57:21
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1729
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to rombsix

I prefer the original - because it's hard enough already.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Ricardo is on response duty these days, for which I am very thankful.


Hey, what about me? My responses may be useless, but perhaps better than no response!



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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 23 2018 22:27:09
 
rombsix

Posts: 6702
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Two versions of intro to PdL's B... (in reply to Dudnote



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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 24 2018 1:33:24
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