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Flamenco puro as world music   You are logged in as Guest
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Morante

 

Posts: 1904
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

Flamenco puro as world music 

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2018 15:22:35
 
Morante

 

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RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2018 15:50:04
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

That was brutal....my ears tried to escape my face.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2018 18:32:44
 
terry70

 

Posts: 26
Joined: Mar. 28 2005
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

That's all interesting. It reminds me of what the British did with African American music in the 1960's. Groups like The Rolling Stones, decent enough musicians in their own right, approximating the sounds and grooves they liked. Was it really blues? Probably not. But artists borrow from things they find around them. And in this shrinking world we are flooded with arts from every corner of the globe. What are you gonna do? I guess complain and make fun of. But every once in a while someone morphs this stuff into clever ideas that people like. Sometimes not.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2018 19:40:56
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

I feel like this is more like African Americans in the 1960’s doing terrible renditions of their own music

I’m surprised Falete is as popular as he/she is, Spain, specifically Andalusia doesn’t come off as the most tolerant place in Europe, but I suppose maybe I’m wrong.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2018 20:35:27
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1904
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Leñador

You wouldn´t believe how many times I have heard "Procuro olvidarte" por bulerías
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 12 2018 22:18:39
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3219
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to terry70

quote:

ORIGINAL: terry70

That's all interesting. It reminds me of what the British did with African American music in the 1960's. Groups like The Rolling Stones, decent enough musicians in their own right, approximating the sounds and grooves they liked. Was it really blues? Probably not. But artists borrow from things they find around them. And in this shrinking world we are flooded with arts from every corner of the globe. What are you gonna do? I guess complain and make fun of. But every once in a while someone morphs this stuff into clever ideas that people like. Sometimes not.


There's a hilarious sequence on "The London Howlin' Wolf Sessions."

Wolf is trying to teach the rock stars the guitar accompaniment to "Little Red Rooster." Wolf is on acoustic slide guitar, Clapton, Mike Butterfield et al are on their usual electrics. Wolf's lick has its own little swing. He keeps trying to explain, "You gotta stop at the top..."

After a while another track starts up. At first you think it's a different song, then it sinks in that it's the rock stars' best shot at Wolf's lick. The swing is completely ironed out, Ringo Starr bashing away, it's harmonized differently, delivered through what sounds like an eight foot high stack of Marshalls, smoothly but at ear shattering volume.

Wolf mans up and sings the song. I hope he made a lot of money.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2018 0:08:20
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1904
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Leñador

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2018 9:38:07
 
Goldwinghai

Posts: 204
Joined: Mar. 17 2015
From: Virginia USA

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

I really like her voice and expression. Upon further search on YouTube, I listened to this video and was blown away. Is this flamenco rumba? Whatever, I really like it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2018 13:41:04
 
Piwin

Posts: 3394
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Goldwinghai

quote:

Is this flamenco rumba?


The answer is in the title. Milonga
The Argentine music nerds will have to confim but I think the original song is by Atahualpa Yupanqui.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2018 14:05:20
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

The version I have is Atahualpa Yupanqui but I don’t know if he’s the first...
A lot of these milongas were sort of floating around already by the time people like Yupanqui, Falu, Larralde etc started recording them.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2018 15:25:34
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1904
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RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Goldwinghai

Hay gente que sabe y gente que no sabe.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2018 15:53:19
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3219
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Leñador



RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2018 19:55:01
 
kitarist

Posts: 1454
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

quote:

Is this flamenco rumba?


The answer is in the title. Milonga
The Argentine music nerds will have to confim


It is right in the words she sings (4th line) - "Milonga Campera" - i.e. rural milonga, i.e. 3-3-2, i.e. what Piazzolla's milongas are like.

Original:

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2018 20:31:51
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3308
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

"Flamenco puro as World Music" is a contradiction in terms. Already in this thread we witness the breakdown in categories with the question of whether an Argentine milonga was in fact "flamenco rumba." The barbarians are at the gates and I fear there is no holding them back.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 14 2018 13:35:32
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1904
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

The barbarians are at the gates and I fear there is no holding them back


¡Ole! I was hoping for a little wakeup
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 14 2018 15:09:13
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

Because no one sold out flamenco until recently.


Flamenco has been an endangered species since it's birth.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 14 2018 19:48:42
 
Piwin

Posts: 3394
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Already in this thread we witness the breakdown in categories with the question of whether an Argentine milonga was in fact "flamenco rumba."


All I witnessed was somebody with an interest in flamenco asking a question about a form he didn't recognize.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 14 2018 21:14:44
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

Some more "flamenco" puro from the good ol' days.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 14 2018 21:33:30
 
rombsix

Posts: 7609
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Leñador

Even the dog in Taka Taka was bored and kept yawning.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 14 2018 21:35:48
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3308
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Leñador

quote:

Some more "flamenco" puro from the good ol' days.


There have always been mountebanks and charlatans in various genres of music, and that goes for flamenco as well. As for Carlos Montoya, he could play flamenco well when he wanted to. Unfortunately, he deliberately decided to forego compas and depend on showmanship during the latter half of his long career.

Nevertheless, none of this detracts from the fact that throughout flamenco's history there have always been flamenco tocaores and cantaores who were the genuine item. They are the ones who will likely be absorbed in some capacity into the "World Music" miasma, and we will be the poorer for it.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 14 2018 22:40:51
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

quote:

As for Carlos Montoya, he could play flamenco well when he wanted to.

Yeah I've heard him play actual flamenco, that's what makes it worse, he knows better.

I don't know Morante's opinion on it but I think as long as there's young people like this flamenco will be alive. It's been changing ever since it began but it stays alive. I'm curious what someone like Manuel Torre would think about Manuel Moneo, I bet similar to what Moneo thinks about this kid. Maybe favorably, maybe not.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2018 2:06:52
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

Thank goodness for ever vigilant Bill warning us off mountbanjs, shifty saltembaques, cads, snivkers, sneeches and flamenco grifters.

Bill out there rolling up sleeves and facing down bad world music with threats of fisticuffs!

Ole'!

Now I have a confession, I really really hates the cajon.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2018 11:41:06
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13336
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante



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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2018 15:02:12
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1904
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Ricardo

Ricardo,

This is flamenco puro in every sense. The LP was one of the first I managed to buy; this cante is described as Debla. (I can still sing the opening phrase!)

Caracol with Lola was mostly pathetic from a flamenco point of view, but a great singer when he wanted. Melchor es muy Melchor, el rey. Arturo one of the very few pianistas who could play flamenco (the current crack is Dorantes pero tiene el gusto por el culo): Sergio Monroy de Cádiz is much better.

Muchas gracias.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2018 15:41:39
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3308
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Thank goodness for ever vigilant Bill warning us off mountbanjs, shifty saltembaques, cads, snivkers, sneeches and flamenco grifters.


Not to mention poltroons masquerading as innovative musicians pushing the boundaries of flamenco beyond the ability of ordinary mortals to recognize it as such.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2018 15:44:23
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

Caracol was a sell out.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2018 17:36:33
 
joselito_fletan

 

Posts: 187
Joined: Jan. 24 2017
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

quote:

(the current crack is Dorantes pero tiene el gusto por el culo):


Orobroy is pretty nice

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 15 2018 19:54:05
 
mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011
 

RE: Flamenco puro as world music (in reply to Morante

First video is a cover of a couple of 70's rumba classics



  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 16 2018 0:40:56
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