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Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
ORIGINAL: JasonM
Is it possible to train your vocals to get as high as Glen Hughs or is it mostly an inherited gitano skill. Because I would love to be able to do that.
Yes. My eyes opened to it recently, and i’ve been seriously working on it thanks to this guy:
So last year, a little while after posting this, I broke down and purchased his HVT training course. Been working with it all 2019. This is no add or anything but having to sing rumbas too it’s been super helpful for me. I used to avoid singing any song with a note above E4, and my real dream was to sing the Racer X stuff honestly. I know this music is not everybody’s favorite thing but I just want to say how empowering it feels to do something I never thought was possible, like you have to be born with a range to do it or something. Anyway here is a favorite of mine:
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
And where I’m at with it:
DAMN!! This is seriously impressive. It sounds like you are also within range to try some of Roberto Salavado's singing and screaming (!) How much range did you get out of this HVT training, i.e. how far did your top note get extended?
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist
quote:
And where I’m at with it:
DAMN!! This is seriously impressive. It sounds like you are also within range try some of Roberto Salavado's singing and screaming (!) How much range did you get out of this HVT training, i.e. how far did your top note get extended?
What I have learned is the pitches are not alone... it depends on the vowel you use and how you control the breath. And the vowels change in feeling depending on what register you are in. So below E4 I can say any word any normal way and it might all feel the same like talking... but if you have to take a melody above that (notes on high E string from e4 to e5 range) you need to change how the vowel gets “said”, and it’s not easy to change registers in a sustained melody so sometimes you need to change the way you say things in low pitches if you need to carry it up there.
The transition is called “passagio” by most schools, and the way you change “saying” a word is called vowel modification... buts not as simple as changing “ah” to “uh”, the change has to do with placing the sound in some resonance pocket in your skull, and those pockets simply don’t respond to normal pronunciation. When you find that pocket of resonance you can slide notes easy around on a single vowel like “oh”, and that feeling is like you have covered your vocal chords with honey or something, and very little air production is needed so you feel like holding it back (control diaphragm). Maintaining that covered feeling is not easy as you start changing vowels AND pitches mixed with consonants. Losing that covered feeling results in cracking yodeling and distortion (ie falseto and fry) so long story short, I can now sustain an “easy” vowel up to G5 or so, but the instinct is to push too much air as you go higher so fighting that is the challenge. And two songs might have a similar range, but if the words of one song are harder to place I will run out of range and breath and the song will be out of my ability.
As an example of what I mean, the range of this song here is in E minor from A3 (A second fret 3rd string) to C5 (8th fret 1st string), but the words are easy to place the way he does it. I could sing it 5 times in a row and never get tired. Queensrÿche “I don’t believe in love” is in D minor but same range of notes. I still can’t make it through the verse and chorus as easy because of how the words need to be delivered, I run out of breath if I’m not careful, and when I do happen to get it nailed, I feel like I just ran a marathon. Singing up high ends up becoming a very involved mental exercise, and I’m watching pros slip up all the time and I never noticed it before. I’m at that early stage learning where I will try things and it works one minute and next time I forget and get stuck. At least I sort of know what I’m supposed to be doing.
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
Did Richard J request this number?
I have an old video of Ricardo singing this tune por rumba. Biggest improvement is the power and control of the vocal chords. This sounds legit.
I’m glad your figuring out all of this vowel stuff so you can hopefully teach it with skull vibrations and honey. Hmm on second thought that doesn’t sound too good. Think I’ll just keep trying.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to JasonM)
quote:
ORIGINAL: JasonM
Did Richard J request this number?
I have an old video of Ricardo singing this tune por rumba. Biggest improvement is the power and control of the vocal chords. This sounds legit.
I’m glad your figuring out all of this vowel stuff so you can hopefully teach it with skull vibrations and honey. Hmm on second thought that doesn’t sound too good. Think I’ll just keep trying.
I used to scream that tune in c# minor ... down a minor 3rd, and worked it out with rumba for fun. But I’m using totally different registration and technique here.
I realized all I wrote before sounds weird as it’s a very subjective thing. Here is an example. When she sings “fantasy” and “born to be”, those ee vowels seat in a different register and you hear her lighten up the tone before that to get into it. Every time. :28, 1:13, and 2:04
Now here she says it like “fantasay”, and “born to bay” every time because she couldn’t get into that other registration and that vowel doesn’t exist there. Even though its the same note range (tuned down a 1/2 step, but it’s not the reason she changed the vowel, nor is it her age). Trust me, now I know what it feels like, these details are jumping out at me. :48, 1:32 and 2:22
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
Thanks for the examples. It’s pretty wild that you can notice these things now. So in the original version where she lightens up, it sounds like she goes more to head voice and less chest - I don’t know if that’s exactly correct... and she makes the whole chorus like that to make it seem like a stylistic thing.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to JasonM)
quote:
So in the original version where she lightens up, it sounds like she goes more to head voice and less chest
Yes it’s a lighter mix, some called it “vowel” register. It’s not full on falsetto, it skirts the edges. It’s obviously not easy to do, and live she keeps it all in a heavier louder registration, and as I said, that piercing “ee” vowel doesn’t exist there. Anyway it’s revealing because it’s exactly the same deal for guys, even the same pitch area.
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to devilhand)
Aren't they the guys who got famous for that Irish drinking song?
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RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Piwin)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Piwin
Aren't they the guys who got famous for that Irish drinking song?
I've never heard of Irish drinking song before. Googled it and searched on youtube, still no clue about it. Anyhow, they got famous after they uploaded their music videos on youtube in 2018-19. They made it big first in the USA and Europe. Now worldwide. Live concerts in New Zealand, South America are cancelled. Due to this pandemy they're stranded now in Australia after they gave a few concerts. 2 of their music videos. In the second video with a singer of Papa Roach.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to La Jirafa)
quote:
ORIGINAL: La Jirafa
Ricardo, any plans for an I am a Viking Yngwie cover?
Ben woods visited me at a gig like 8 years ago and we played it acoustically after the gig. Someone got a video but I can’t find it, it was on facebook. I did find a good version some fan made like karaoke with both vocals and lead guitar missing. I was thinking to do voice and lead guitar over that. Only one little problem. Jeff Scott Soto is an insanely advanced vocalist....It’s not for no reason he got the journey gig briefly, that stuff is easy for him compared to marching out material. Mark Boals, Yngwie’s other awesome singer, is the only guy I’ve heard really pulling off both his own tracks AND soto’s stuff. I am still training and working towards a long term goal to sing those tunes. But I will work on it!
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
Awesome stuff to hear! You're right on with Soto and Boals. Imagine those guying ripping some cante? Looking forward to hearing the Yngwie covers in the future!
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to La Jirafa)
quote:
ORIGINAL: La Jirafa
Awesome stuff to hear! You're right on with Soto and Boals. Imagine those guying ripping some cante? Looking forward to hearing the Yngwie covers in the future!
Boals toured last year singing for an Yngwie cover band. The breath control he has is super advanced, better than Soto can do today even. Check out what he does with Viking at 2:27 at least if not that whole song. I’m working to get up and touch that Gb5 haha!
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
Woaaah! That was impressive. Someone needs to get boals on a Buleria. The guitarist did a great job with that solo too. Looks like a Fiesta red strat with the maple neck, GREAT taste. I always loved seeing Yngwie whip out the red strats from time to time.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to La Jirafa)
quote:
ORIGINAL: La Jirafa
Woaaah! That was impressive. Someone needs to get boals on a Buleria. The guitarist did a great job with that solo too. Looks like a Fiesta red strat with the maple neck, GREAT taste. I always loved seeing Yngwie whip out the red strats from time to time.
The siguiriyas Duquende sang during Zyryab during Paco’s final concert tours (2010 on) is the similar vocal range to some of this metal stuff. I think he might have sounded too “screamy” up there, but it gives an idea. 1:28:16 F#4-B4
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to La Jirafa)
quote:
ORIGINAL: La Jirafa
Ricardo, any plans for an I am a Viking Yngwie cover?
Ok here is an attempt. As you can see I’m no Jeff Scott Soto or mark Boals! Haha!!!
I can through the verses up until the last three notes and my breath support gives up....its gonna be a lot of work for those last couple notes. Maybe next year.
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
Yeaaaaahh!! OLE! Odin is most certainly proud. To get some more reps in just add it to the performing repertoire. Would be one kick ass way too open up a post quarantine show!
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
It sounds like you are also within range to try some of Roberto Salavado's singing and screaming (!) How much range did you get out of this HVT training, i.e. how far did your top note get ext
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
quote:
It sounds like you are also within range to try some of Roberto Salavado's singing and screaming (!) How much range did you get out of this HVT training, i.e. how far did your top note get ext
Ok man, finally working on it:
Damn! that's awesome! Very nice vibrato on the 'nel' in 'sentinel'. What is the pitch of 'sen'? Also towards the end you scream/sing something at an even higher pitch.
Does Roberto get into a different register for his highest screams (not in this song necessarily), or is it just a manner of extending that same vocal space you sing in?
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Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
Damn! that's awesome! Very nice vibrato on the 'nel' in 'sentinel'. What is the pitch of 'sen'? Also towards the end you scream/sing something at an even higher pitch.
Does Roberto get into a different register for his highest screams (not in this song necessarily), or is it just a manner of extending that same vocal space you sing in?
It goes D.....C-B. That’s like 10-8-7 on guitar first string. The voice mixes between falsetto and chest up in that area, then usually it’s pure falsetto above E5 (12th fret). On the B I pull a lot of chest in to do that vibrato. But because of that, I’m not doing a good job keeping chord closure mid song on those higher notes. (On the last chorus I did a decent “condemn to hell” on E5 first time). But I Can hit em properly as one offs on single vowels, but my breath control simply not good enough to get it after singing something before it in lower register.
The distorted sound I feel is a bit of a relaxation, it’s easier than doing a clean sound. So by that I mean the mixed falsetto scream up high feels easier with distortion than clean, because you are not having to close the chords together. Hope that makes sense.
Also, the bridge section (Amidst the upturned burned out cars on E4, or open E string) I’m trying to copy his sort of pushed strained sound...it’s much lower but it’s a very thick tight chords sound and it’s actually harder to sing than the chorus, which is lighter though it’s up high. His live version he alters the melody never (In that version I mean) going above the E4, and actually drops lower. I’m totally envious of his deliver of the chorus at the end of that though, wow.
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to mrstwinkle)
NERDSnerdslolnerds
I read this whole thread reminds me of the years I dated a soprano.
When I was in high school Rob Halford was spotted in a steak house in our town scarfing down a plate of roast beef after a show at the Swing Auditorium. Then he became a tea totaling vegetarian. His social media posts are like he’s a heavy metal Gwyneth Paltrow with nice tips about diet and ethical behavior. But he’s still Mr. Metal
Dolly is awesome too. She’s done more for children’s literacy in her state than any political figure.
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist
well this happened!
Talk about LONG overdue for most of those artists. Even KK joined for a reunion that night. And my favorite Racer-X drummer sharing the stage with the older drummer was cool, no click tracks needed.
Dolly and Rob for president!!!
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