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Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
Un poco de cante, toque, y baile, 1986
Thought I would join the fun off topic flamenco postings... I know 1986 seemed like a long time ago, but this is very fresh sounding.
Cantaor- Marcos Carnicero.... sings very high for a male cantaor.... 8 or 9 por medio? Maybe higher.
Toque - Vicente Vicente.... probably changed his last name just like Vicente Amigo did from Vicente Girol. What is interesting is the falseta at 3:50, seems based on very old style Caña. Also the very ending cierre is cool, I am still working to get the exact tonos.
Percussion - Roberto Roca.... I think he has produced some other recordings and performed with several other artistas... very good soniquete.
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
For upper-register male cante, noone beats Roberto Salavado IMO. Here he is in 1979 in a lively number called "el Destripador"; listen to the beginning:
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
Que duende!! I especially liked the way he fondly places his 68 Ramirez back in its temperature controlled glass display cabinet at the end.
@Kitarist - I heard on the grapevine Roberto's band are touring Europe this year - although I don't know if he's still with them, or if he can still sing fandangos with the capo at 11.
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Dudnote)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dudnote @Kitarist - I heard on the grapevine Roberto's band are touring Europe this year - although I don't know if he's still with them, or if he can still sing fandangos with the capo at 11.
He is with them still - North American tour starts in like 5 days, and a new album drops today Friday I think. Amazingly he seems to have preserved his vocal range. Skip to 20:25 in this video for a 2017 screaming sample :-) It's tocaor Granja del Valle who's had adverse health news recently and will not be joining the rest on the tour.
Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
The true test of the cantores as they become viejos is to maintain their tonos on stage. It just gets harder and harder as the body ages. I am often saddend when I see my favorites going down.
One of my all time favorite tocaores Pablo Gilberto, reunited his old cuadrao from the 80s only 10 years ago. His cantaor sr. Martins is not only a great “Salavadero”, but also close compadres with Roberto himself, so much so that Roberto gifted Sr. Martin and Pablo Gilberto his own cancion “Corazon del Leon” for their recording in 1987 of “Calor Segundo”.
Anyway, this live performance of “...por La noche” really shows Sr. Martins with garganta fuerte, and muy muy “Salavadero”...
....oh forgot to point out, both Pablo Gilberto Grupo and Roberto’s grupo have been using the SAME percussionista....which made things tricky for anything more than a brief Reunion of course.
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
Now I am puzzled what 'salavadero" is in your version. Sound similar to Salavado that I used but my "people naming convention" was just to translate the names to Spanish based on what their etymology was. In my case "Salavado" = Hallford because Hallford pointed to "hall of the ford" and then the two words hall and ford translated. Similarly, Glenn pointed to "valley" and Tipton to "Tibba's tun" where tun = farm/home. So "farm in/on the valley" translated to Granja del Valle :-)
Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist
Now I am puzzled what 'salavadero" is in your version. Sound similar to Salavado that I used but my "people naming convention" was just to translate the names to Spanish based on what their etymology was. In my case "Salavado" = Hallford because Hallford pointed to "hall of the ford" and then the two words hall and ford translated. Similarly, Glenn pointed to "valley" and Tipton to "Tibba's tun" where tun = farm/home. So "farm in/on the valley" translated to Granja del Valle :-)
Sorry for breaking the fourth wall.
When a cantor is imitated, the copyists are referred to collectively by the Artistc name of the maestro followed by “ero” or “ista” meaning one who doing the job of or likeness of said artist. For example those who copy caracol, Camaron, or even PDL are called “Caracoleros”, “Camaroneros”, or “Paqueros”... etc. Of course some artists don’t like that distinction unless they are deliberately imitating.
"Judas Priest and Deep Purple will unite for a co-headlining North American tour. The 25-date trek launches August 21st in Cincinnati and concludes September 30th in Wheatland, California. " !!!!!
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Interesting stuff, those high voices that are popular in eastern Andalucía, sometimes a bit reminiscent of opera flamenca.
More from the western area, and illustrating what the scholar Allen Josephs calls the Andalusian "culture of death", here's some material that didn't make it into the Encuentro series because their regular cameraman suddenly took off with their equipment; a basic tutorial on cante y toque jondo, presented by Guillermo de la Muralla:
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Leñador)
I just discovered that Valle del Fuego (*) is perhaps in the greatest shape vocally - his voice seems to have been preserved completely - with the same range and power as it was in the 1970s. Check out this from his current touring performing classic Deep Purple: (use this link to jump to 35:22 for an example: https://youtu.be/_jJGiVbrKys?t=2122 but listen for 30 seconds or so, not just for the first few)
(*) Glenn - from Gaelic - valley; Hughes - from Welsh Hu/Huw - fire.
Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist
I just discovered that Valle del Fuego (*) is perhaps in the greatest shape vocally - his voice seems to have been preserved completely - with the same range and power as it was in the 1970s. Check out this from his current touring performing classic Deep Purple: (use this link to jump to 35:22 for an example: https://youtu.be/_jJGiVbrKys?t=2122 but listen for 30 seconds or so, not just for the first few)
(*) Glenn - from Gaelic - valley; Hughes - from Welsh Hu/Huw - fire.
Oh hell yeah, Valle del Fuego has still got the quejio and tono and everything. My new (old) favorite discovery of the moment is Miguel Quiz-Que....formally and still currently cantaor for Infierno-Ouin. “La Marcha del Tiempo”, por ejemplo, he lost the pelo, but kept the garganta in amazing shape...still touring today like this!
And making new songs in same “estilo antiguo”, but still fresh. Like this “Excepcional”....
Oh heck una mas cancion nueva , it’s so good...”Ha llegado tu hora”
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
In a similar vein - here's Bruce Dickinson and Glenn Hughes singing Burn, at the concert celebrating Jon Lord in 2014 at Royal Albert Hall. They take turns with the couplets.
They also sing "You Keep on Moving" together (which is actually the song before Burn in the set):
Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist
In a similar vein - here's Bruce Dickinson and Glenn Hughes singing Burn, at the concert celebrating Jon Lord in 2014 at Royal Albert Hall. They take turns with the couplets.
They also sing "You Keep on Moving" together (which is actually the song before Burn in the set):
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
Is it possible to train your vocals to get as high as Glen Hughs or is it mostly an inherited gitano skill. Because I would love to be able to do that.
Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to JasonM)
quote:
ORIGINAL: JasonM
Is it possible to train your vocals to get as high as Glen Hughs or is it mostly an inherited gitano skill. Because I would love to be able to do that.
Yes. My eyes opened to it recently, and i’ve been seriously working on it thanks to this guy:
Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Thought I would join the fun off topic flamenco postings... I know 1986 seemed like a long time ago, but this is very fresh sounding.
Cantaor- Marcos Carnicero.... sings very high for a male cantaor.... 8 or 9 por medio? Maybe higher.
Toque - Vicente Vicente.... probably changed his last name just like Vicente Amigo did from Vicente Girol. What is interesting is the falseta at 3:50, seems based on very old style Caña. Also the very ending cierre is cool, I am still working to get the exact tonos.
Percussion - Roberto Roca.... I think he has produced some other recordings and performed with several other artistas... very good soniquete.
Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Un poco de cante, toque, y baile... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kitarist
For upper-register male cante, noone beats Roberto Salavado IMO. Here he is in 1979 in a lively number called "el Destripador"; listen to the beginning:
Bumped into cantaor Sr. Roberto Salavado last night, and also got the John Hancock from the percusionista who also puts the soniquete on my favorite metal album:
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should have thought of that.. 
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