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1-3-b5 triad?   You are logged in as Guest
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callemunicion

 

Posts: 83
Joined: Jun. 5 2017
 

1-3-b5 triad? 

Hi! I'm practicing for a music theory exam.
Does such a triad exist? A C# Eb?
It is not augmented or diminished. But this exam is about triads, so I can't name it A#11..
Any suggestions?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2018 16:15:25
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10944
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: 1-3-b5 triad? (in reply to callemunicion

quote:

ORIGINAL: callemunicion

Hi! I'm practicing for a music theory exam.
Does such a triad exist? A C# Eb?
It is not augmented or diminished. But this exam is about triads, so I can't name it A#11..
Any suggestions?


Personally, this type of situation shows a “misspelling” in context of something, enharmonically I mean. In this case, it’s either the Eb (should be D#) or the C# (Should be Db). A quick look at context would reveal which mistake was made.

The A C# D# would in fact be A(#11), as in the IV chord in E major, or A lydian.

The A Db Eb would be from the Bb minor key, the raised 7th being A. This triad could be heard in place of the F7, where the Db is like a flat 13 tension meant to resolve to C, pulling down to tonic Bb eventually. (Jazz guys think of this more like Dominant7#5 type thing that need not resolve...also the A altered is from Bb melodic minor).

One last possibility is the Augmented 6th harmony. In Context that would be like an Eb7 where the Db (7th) is deliberately misspelled as C# (aug6) for the sake of voice leading (you will resolve to D after this chord, up by half step from the C#, down by half step with the bass note)....however the A note would be the #11 of the Eb7 harmony...so you hear Eb7#11....I think this is the French 6 chord however, it’s in the wrong inversion (you need Eb in the bass), and the G note is essential and missing. So not a good candidate for legitimizing having C# and Eb in the same chord.

In flamenco I could do it if you added the G and Bb notes and put the C# in the Bass for example: Cm7->Eb7#11/Db-> D(b9)....on paper I would spell the Db as C# for voice leading, and then you can have your three notes coexisting legitimately....however I still consider the misspelling to be wrong when looking for chord quality and sound/function.

Lastly, the Eb, as seen as “flat5” is famous for being called the “blues note”, a tritone away from any tonic...and is normally heard as a dissonant “out note” accidental, inother words you probably also hear an E natural against this note in context, so not fair to name it as a chord tone.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2018 16:48:45
 
callemunicion

 

Posts: 83
Joined: Jun. 5 2017
 

RE: 1-3-b5 triad? (in reply to callemunicion

Thanks Ricardo, really interesting.
Are triads only mayor, minor, diminished, augmented? The exercise I did was only about triads and I was confused about the mayor third+tritone, so I thought it is a special mayor diminished chord (which doesn't exist right? :D)
If A#11 missing the 5, is it also called a triad because it has 3 notes in it, or are triads in music theory only may. min. dim. and aug.?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2018 0:33:50
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10944
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: 1-3-b5 triad? (in reply to callemunicion

quote:

ORIGINAL: callemunicion

Thanks Ricardo, really interesting.
Are triads only mayor, minor, diminished, augmented? The exercise I did was only about triads and I was confused about the mayor third+tritone, so I thought it is a special mayor diminished chord (which doesn't exist right? :D)
If A#11 missing the 5, is it also called a triad because it has 3 notes in it, or are triads in music theory only may. min. dim. and aug.?

Triads are just a stack of any three different notes played at once .... intervals BETWEEN notes are described major minor augmented or diminished, depending on how they are named by letter and accidentals and voiced. CHORDS are formed by stacking thirds typically, but you can stack 4th 5th 6ths etc. chords can also be described as major minor aug or diminish among other adjectives (dominant tonic sus power neopolitan French German Italian cluster 9-11-13 etc). For Example stacking minor thirds produces a diminished 7th chord and stacking major thirds produces an augmented triad.

Here is a triad made of major second intervals and another that is made of minor seconds neither are “chords”:

E—0—0–
B—3—6–
G—5—8–
D————
A————
E————-

PS—- careful how you write chords ....
A(#11) is AC#E(G#andB implied)D#
Aadd#11 is AC#ED#
A#11 is A#(Cx)E#G#B#D# normally voiced without the third and most often as G#/A# which is G# triad or 6 chord with A# bass note. Even though it’s a theoretical key you use it in, (Bb11 is more correct) it’s important to be clear.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2018 7:41:37
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