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RE: Toros
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Toros (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
I think it's possible to hold a position of knowledge of the anti bullfighting argument and also discuss the position of bulls to Flamenco. The guitarist I mentioned that is beef free, and has been since the 70s, loves a particular cuple por bulerias of Miguel funi where he tells a long narrative about Belmonte the matador. He fcan hold his mind in more than one place at a time.
In my opinion, the trick in maintaining a reasonable stance while debating one side or the other of an issue, be it the Corrida or Political-Economy, is not to be "ideological" in approach. Far too many people are blinded by ideology. Speaking for myself, I came to the conclusion decades ago that the Corrida is cruel and inhumane, not to mention the advantage the Matador has by facing a bull that has already been weakened by the Picador on horseback and the banderillas placed in its neck. Yet, I still maintain an interest in the cultural grip the Corrida has in Spain and certain countries in Latin America.
In 1965, while serving in the U.S. Air Force in Germany, I spent the month of July in Spain, first spending the entire week in Pamplona at the Fiesta de San Fermin. The ring's entrance boasts a bust of Ernest Hemingway, who did so much to put the Fiesta on the map with his book "The Sun Also Rises." Hemingway was my introduction to the Corrida with his "Death in the Afternoon," where I first read of the great Belmonte. Even in 2000, when I was on a temporary State Department assignment to our Embassy in Bogota, Colombia, long after I had determined my stance on the issue, I attended a couple of Corridas. I guess the anthropologist in me still recognizes a bit of cultural relativity, although only up to a certain point.
But one thing has become perfectly clear to me: It is a waste of time to debate issues with an ideologue.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Dec. 22 2017 14:48:15
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Toros (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
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quote:
estebanana, you are fortunate to have only a shallow intellect. I am burdened by an intellect which is both deep and broad, sharpened further by years of studying the most pressing issues of the day. Furthermore I am profoundly empathetic--in the 99th percentile, according to the standard protocols.This has been my fate since the age of twelve.
But it is indeed a heavy burden to bear. My intellectual and emotional gifts oblige me, from time to time, to point out to my fellow humans the error of their ways. More often than not they don't just fail to comprehend, some actually take offense! This while I am just doing my duty, employing my gifts to right the world's wrongs.
How often I have wished for the freedom afforded to a shallow intellect!
RNJ
Good Sir, if you will permit me to intrude upon your discussion with Mr. Faulk, concerning his shallow intellect vs. the burden of your deep and broad intellect as well as your profound empathy; recognizing satire when I see it, I wish to commend you for your sure aim and skewering of the intended target. To your health Sir!
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Dec. 22 2017 15:44:56
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Toros (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
Good Sir, if you will permit me to intrude upon your discussion with Mr. Faulk, concerning his shallow intellect vs. the burden of your deep and broad intellect as well as your profound empathy; recognizing satire when I see it, I wish to commend you for your sure aim and skewering of the intended target. To your health Sir!
Bill
I'm sure you know that the Jernigan Suites Hotel, far from a Trump Resort, does not feature a bowling alley with a restaurant that serves well done steaks with ketchup, but a gym with a 'banderilla workout' program that emulates the experience of placing the banderilla into the shoulder of a toro. The equipment is lifelike, yet not a real bull, a maquette charges the person in the gym, the person taking the workout capes the bull, which is controlled by computer program to act like a real dangerous bull. The horns are made of hard foam, or if the workout user wants more danger, he can affix a set of balsa wood horns to the mechanical creature.
Suffice it to say I could go on describing this workout equipment, it's effectiveness and superiority to any of the gyms in any Trump motel, but I'll leave you with this- Jernigan, like the noble lancemen of English history he's decended of, has honed the art of placing the barb, the point, the hook and the pique into his fishing, bull lore and his conversational wit.
Why tilt at windmills when one can create an empire of hotels with mechanical bull gymnasiums which render ones deep and empathetic intellect razor keen?
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Dec. 22 2017 22:18:31
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Toros (in reply to estebanana)
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Reading comments on an article about wolves in Germany, before coming to the foro and seeing yours, funny how the last comment there ended with: "... This applies especially to declared non-ideologists. For, ideologists - naturally always are the others."
For another clue of ordinary psychology, watch out for personally sensed degrading as reaction to pragmatic and ethical concerns. (In the sense of you 'being downgraded / your critic being elevated'.) Difficulty of following a contextual string without involuntarily producing evaluation and defense of oneself in the first place, presents no object related focus nor sobriety.
As much as it may surprise: I have all my life tried to make out coherency of bricks first before seizing an intellectual building, and before trying to figure out which theory / ideology could reflect the structure.
Accordingly, when I try to point out what appears to be unjust item or principle, it is not aimed at demonstrating vis-à-vis´ failure, ridiculing his past, competing for personal matter or any such periphery.
In the opposite. It seems futile when unrelated self-defense of personal life and health is being dragged in and distracting from guts of a general condition.
I don´t even care whether or how you have been following something that I criticize. What interests me instead is contextual struggling for to make out clues in a matter.
If partners in debate like to unroll why and how they got to a personal perspective or attitude, that will be alright, but what interests me most is how we can figure out approaches towards objectivity. And contextual rivalry (which I consider a constructive thing to have by the nature of it) helps me to check congruency and arguments for new aspects.
If looking for contextual compliance, refuge and what was considered harmony and good behavior until first half of 20th century, then I can only appear to be your infant terrible. If however seeking for inherent challenge and for content in spite of personal sensitivity then I like to be companion in proof and failure.
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Date Dec. 23 2017 6:18:54
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Piwin
Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: Toros (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
make no difference to the fact that the genre developed well into the future even though slavery was abandoned
Sure, OK. Fun game. If you're going to claim that, then I'm going to claim that flamenco developed very well into the future even though the Carthaginian Empire collapsed. Makes about as much sense. If you really want to talk about the American South and slavery, you have to pose this question: did the work songs of slaves (or any other music sung by slaves) survive the cultural shift brought about by the end of slavery? If you're only point is that the blues was based on a previous genre of music...well duh...every genre of music is based on something else that preceeded it. By that token, I could just as much say that the "fundamentals of the blues" were around when the first primate decided to hit rocks together and form a rhythm. And then I could say things like: The fundamentals of the blues were in place before, and the 55,000 years between that moment (and everything that happened in between) and archetype's first recognition as blues makes no difference to the fact that the genre developed well into the future even though XX (hunter-gatherer societies, the divine right of kings, the Roman Empire, the Spanish inquisition, or whatever else you want, take your pick) was abandoned.
I give up. Merry Christmas.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
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Date Dec. 23 2017 10:27:26
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Toros (in reply to Piwin)
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quote:
Right...I suppose that's why you didn't care to concede even the smallest of things like when I pointed how you were wrong about the blues having survived without slavery since the blues only emerged after the end of slavery?
Because you're all about the content and objectivity right?
I snorted beer out of my nose, oh wait, no, coffee out of my nose when I read that. When did Robert Johnson live? Lightnin' Hopkins? Don't worry, I was chastized the other day for some Jurassic dinosaur poop wood that is really pine, but no one will admit it. But I was not busted for for saying it grew during the dinosaurian eras, only that I don't know pine from dog poop. But making those errors is typical of those with shallow intellects like mine.
Perhaps you Piwin are rating yourself much too high on the smarts scale, you're probably really comparable to me, down on the shallow end. To be objective.
What was really abandoned in the Deep South was bullfighting. The Northern War of Aggression was really a politically correct movement to stamp out bullfighting in Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina and Virgina. And lo it did, it really did. And in this post fact climate we live in, you can see there's narry a vestige of toros in the far south, because the damn Yankees scorched the very earth of the corrida plantations. Nothing left but cotton and tobacco, the bulls were wiped out and all the toro lore of the old south.
And that is why the blues were invented, to lament the passing out of history of the great southern corrida killed off by Lincoln, that politically correct bastard. That's also why he was assassinated, to avenge the toros bravos of Virgina which did not survive the Union generals slaughters.
The ancient Minoans brought bulls and government to America, and by God Donald Trump will make it great again by bringing bullshiet back to America.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Dec. 23 2017 10:59:29
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estebanana
Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
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RE: Toros (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
You tend to voluntarily exhibit your kind of stringency. And then get annoyed by me. Must be making total sense somehow.
While I knew from start (many years before you) that kauri is a connifer species and never claimed anything else, you -who obviously just like most people had never heard of it before- were the one who thought it necessary to spoil my fascination over ancient kauri by jumping in and showcasing expertise, according to which you had lots of experience with this material in California, absolutely confident of it to be a sort of eucalyptus gum tree.
quote:
ORIGINAL: estebanana
Meh, Kauri is is just another kind of Gum tree.
Still not overcome? Should I had agreed on your estimation for to be a good guy?
Jeez, erring is human. You are erring daily. Everyone does. Get over it.
Kauri is the common for a kind of Gum or Eucalyptus in CA turn of the century Victorian houses. I restored several rooms with Kauri crown moulding, and window frames about 20 years ago while chair rails which I matched with modern milled eucalyptus. I took a sample of the original Kauri molding to a mill and had them make a new cutter blade for the job, cost about 80 bucks, they traced the pattern of the original Kauri moulding and cut a new knife, then milled out several hundred linear feet of new moulding to match the original. Then I name in with the stock that was made carefully to match the existing and repaired the older areas that has water damaged and extended the new stock into a room addition.
Now today you can go to a lumber yard a buy a kind of wood called Ipe, Ipe is nothing but a generic name for various kinds of Iron Wood that grow in Brazil and are branded under the name Ipe a s trade name. During the Victorian building era in San Francisco there was a similar situation.
But of course I explained all this before, It's regional building nomenclature and I don't need to go back over it. So lets get back to the toros if we all can.
_____________________________
https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
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Date Dec. 23 2017 13:28:23
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