RE: I'll miss this place..

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Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

I agree with the "fresh start" idea. It'll also probably make things a whole lot easier for Simon if we just leave the foro where it is and not try to transfer content.
I do hope that people get to save the things they put a lot of effort in (like Pimientito's PdL discography or El Kiko's beginner thread) but that's irrelevant to the new forum, that's just for them.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 9:59:24

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I agree:

1. Any new forum or forums cannot be seeded with data from here without significant work and mutual agreements in place. I await legal advice on that matter. The original authors are, of course, free to offer their contributions to anyone else. I have a backup of all the content and can make that available to those authors upon request.
2. If foro flamenco publishes information in another form, it would only be with the express permission of the author(s).

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 9:59:38

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to RobJe)

I totally agree here.

I been member for a long time. I shared private things here, back then I had no problem f.i. To share my email adres on the foro. Now, in this time and age I am much more carefull.
So, start new.
It is also very refreshing to start sometimes with a fresh new sheet sometimes in live.

The Phoenix will rise out of the ashes!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 10:10:48

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

Now, in this time and age I am much more carefull.

This might be one of the main issues with this proboards.com option. I fiddled around with it a bit last night and it does look pretty easy to handle and should have most of what we need. It has significant advantages.
But, they have their own terms of service and privacy policy, which are most likely not negotiable. I'd have to take a closer look at it but at first glance I just thought "well, I'd better be prepared to start seeing guitar ads on every website I visit".

It's a tradeoff I suppose and members will have to decide whether they're comfortable with that or not.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 10:30:59

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

Yes, I agree with you all. This makes sense to not transfer anything. If an individual wants to save their own work that is their choice.

Let's have a complete fresh start. The foro has been so valuable I am being a bit emotional. But time to let it go.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 10:46:36

payaso

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

This may be an extremely foolish question, but what resources in terms of cost, time and enhanced security (such as password-protected access, subscription only, new hosting software) would be needed for someone to keep the foro going as a forum? There is so much valuable material here and all your most generous work deserves to be valued as a legacy. Members have contributed a lot, too, and some have offered funds and some have considerable IT expertise.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 11:17:42

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

What time of the day will it close ?, ON SUNDAY 5th NOVEMBER 2017?

I think we should do something ...
Like at the moment is closes everyone plays an E maj chord ,,,
.

...and lo this chord shall ring out around the world ,,.in the villages and in the towns , and the kings and lowly alike shall here this E maj chord ...
,.
and one man shal stand up and say
.

'' ...Seriously ...Kiko ...for the very last chord , you couldnt be bothered to tune your guitar a bit , and ruin the whole thing ''
'''
and El kiko will be ashamed , again , and spell his name with a small 'k 'from that moment forth

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Don't trust Atoms.....they make up everything.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 11:45:37

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Very moving tarantas video. I posted it to my Facebook page.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 12:22:35

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

In broad strokes:
The general rule is that the author of any material (writings, photographs or videos) contributed to social media platforms –Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and the like- owns its content.

However, many social media platforms have enacted Terms of Service (to which a contributor agrees when registering/setting up an account there, and can be changed unilaterally by the provider) limiting the scope of such general rule.

For example:
“Instagram does not claim ownership of any Content that you post on or through the Service. Instead, you hereby grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to use the Content that you post on or through the Service.”

Absent such a proviso, that conveys not the property but a license (permission) to use without limitation the author’s content, the Service has no right to use that property. I am afraid, ForoFlamenco does not have such language in its Terms of Service, and therefore does not have that right/license, either.

However, yet, -but I state this with a measure of caution- if the new Forum should substantially be a continuation of the old one, transferring posts/content from one platform to the next would not infringe upon anyone’s property rights.

As a footnote, I must add, that in a more social rather than legal perspective, the concern is the unpredictable temper of some members who, in the past, have rushed to beat their chests and rend their garments whenever their “rights” had been allegedly violated on the forum. Simon neither needs nor deserves this grievance.

There are of course a number of possible solutions to this impasse, but I am afraid they would all entail a significant expenditure of both time and money. And if one were willing to invest accordingly, then it would be easier to devote that effort to save the forum –as is (with some added features, perhaps).

On a personal note: I have not posted here in a long time, but I recurrently read the regrettably shrinking pages of our beloved foroflamenco.

I will not mention and thank single members, as in doing so I would exclude many from the unlimited scope of my gratitude. In general, the great majority of members have contributed wonderful and entertaining material over the years, that it is indeed sad lose.
As to the unpleasantries scattered throughout these pages, in the twilight of this monumental forum –to quote Milan Kundera- “everything is illuminated by the aura of nostalgia”.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 12:49:59

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to payaso)

quote:

This may be an extremely foolish question, but what resources in terms of cost, time and enhanced security (such as password-protected access, subscription only, new hosting software) would be needed for someone to keep the foro going as a forum? There is so much valuable material here and all your most generous work deserves to be valued as a legacy. Members have contributed a lot, too, and some have offered funds and some have considerable IT expertise.

You should budget around $1200 per year to support the 100 currently-posting members per month. Then $300-$400 to convert the database, upgrade forum software and 10GB of uploads.

There really is not a lot of contributing traffic here and it is in significant decline. In 15 years, just 867 members out of 10,600 have ever posted anything.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 13:00:24

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

I will not mention and thank single members, as in doing so I would exclude many from the unlimited scope of my gratitude. In general, the great majority of members have contributed wonderful and entertaining material over the years, that it is indeed sad lose.
As to the unpleasantries scattered throughout these pages, in the twilight of this monumental forum –to quote Milan Kundera- “everything is illuminated by the aura of nostalgia”.

¡ÓLE!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 13:04:02

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

Thanks for all your work, Escribano.

I hereby give permission to everyone to re-post any of my posts, anywhere.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 13:16:13

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

quote:

I suggest that any non-accessible 'member only' threads that individuals find valuable could be copy and pasted now while this foro is still up. Then uploaded to the new forum once that is up.
E.g Kitarist has already saved the sound files for the cante accompaniment thread.

Please be aware that you do not own the posts here. They are owned by the respective members, who have agreed to post them here and nowhere else.

Just to be clear, the reference to "Kitarist has already saved the sound files for the cante accompaniment thread" is not about foro flamenco posts. It was about a folder of sound files hosted by Florian on 4shared for members to use, which however was practically impossible to actually get to due to 4shared becoming some sort of spam-infested underground labyrinth. After somehow managing to recover them, I simply put a copy on Google drive so people can actually use the collection as originally intended. I can take that down of course if requested.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 15:13:15

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to kitarist)

Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 15:14:55

payaso

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

Thank you for that. That's a lot of money to be donating each year, quite apart from the time. I would happily pay a subscription and would give more to anybody who wanted to take over the task. I am sure there are other members happy to donate.

So many people want everything for free these days, but I believe foro members are different

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 17:23:15

NewPlayer

Posts: 141
Joined: Nov. 29 2012
From: San Francisco

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

Very sad, I ve been a lurker on here for 5 years and have really enjoyed everything that this site has to offer. Truly going to miss it.

Thanks Simon for setting up this platform that has been so enriching to our lives.

P.S. I am also interested in participating in donations/subscriptions.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 17:47:53

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

You should budget around $1200 per year to support the 100 currently-posting members per month. Then $300-$400 to convert the database, upgrade forum software and 10GB of uploads.

I can’t contribute any work but I’ve got $400 to cover the convert/upgrade if anyone’s wants to spearhead this.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 18:53:00

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I can’t contribute any work but I’ve got $400 to cover the convert/upgrade if anyone’s wants to spearhead this.

Your PM inbox is full so I sent you an email. If that doesn't arrive, clean out your inbox and let me know.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 19:09:51

IraqiOud

Posts: 41
Joined: Apr. 3 2016
From: Iraq, Living in North Carolina

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

You should budget around $1200 per year to support the 100 currently-posting members per month. Then $300-$400 to convert the database, upgrade forum software and 10GB of uploads.

There really is not a lot of contributing traffic here and it is in significant decline. In 15 years, just 867 members out of 10,600 have ever posted anything.

Such numbers seem reasonable to achieve through crowdfunding. Why not make a GoFundMe style depository account where members can contribute and if we reach the target we just keep this foro open for another year. It can be done on a yearly basis and the year we fail to reach the target fund we just let it go.

I may not be very active in this foro but I still appreciate the valuable work of its members and would happily contribute.

Ali

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 19:32:41

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

Well, I don't know Simon if you think this is still an option or not, but honestly if the big issue is finances I'm more than happy to pitch in too.
1200 a year? Even if only the 100 posting members were to contribute that would still be just 1 dollar a month each... And if those lurking in the shadows would pitch in even just a dollar a year that amount would easily be covered.
As for the upgrade, I'm not in a position right now to give nearly as much as Lennie but I could throw in 50 or so, so he doesn't have to take it all on him.

That leaves the issue of time and the work you put into it. I don't know if there is anything you can delegate or not to make things more manageable for you but there too I'm happy to contribute in whatever way I can (just don't put a line of code in front of me: I'd probably somehow manage to break the entire internet

).

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 19:46:09

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin
As for the upgrade, I'm not in a position right now to give nearly as much as Lennie but I could throw in 50 or so, so he doesn't have to take it all on him.

If that's divided between the 100 active members that's just 4 euros each.

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Ay compañerita de mi alma
tú ahora no me conoces.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 19:59:38

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Dudnote)

Maybe we could set up a quick poll to get an idea of how many people would be willing to pitch in and for what amount?

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 20:16:06

eccullen

Posts: 97
Joined: Aug. 14 2007

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

I too would contribute, happily, if finance is the crux issue...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 21:53:53

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

What a shame. I don't post often on the Foro anymore, but I have been checking it daily until about six months ago. It seems the technology that was created to enable people to communicate more easily has been co-opted by bullies for the purpose of extortion. How much money do they think they could possibly get from a public forum like this?

Best wishes and good luck to everyone in all of their future endeavors! I learned so much here!

Simon, thank you for all of your effort as well as your near infinite patience in dealing with the characters that made the Foro such an interesting place. I know it wasn't easy!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 22:10:22

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

Well, since I was ejected from the Foro for effing and blinding I've still read the new posts every day. That's about three years worth of lurking. It's clear that posters are becoming fewer and fewer but are still entertaining and informative. So, I thought I'd come back briefly while there is still time to say thank you to everyone for making it such a vibrant place. Explicitly because of the Foro I have made several flamenco guitars, dived into the flamenco culture, travelled to Andalucía several times and am finally learning Spanish (courtesy of the Michel Thomas method). I guess the good thing is, I am on the journey now whether the Foro survives or not and for that I thank you all and in particular, Simon.

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Hello I'm a beginner. Please don't hurt me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 22:53:58

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

Didn't get an email...cleaned my PM out and PM'd you my email.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2017 23:52:37

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

I would be in favor of a flat rate membership, and give partial access to non members. I would be happy to pay 20 to 30 dollars per year.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 4:17:15

Njål Bendixen

Posts: 65
Joined: Aug. 25 2016

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Piwin)

Sad news indeed. I just logged on after a weeks absence or so. What a shock!

First let me express my gratitude to all who have run the forum and who have contributed. There are true gems of wisdom (hidden in piles of BS, but this is the nature of these things), especially in the lutherie section which I have found tremendously useful.

I have only been a member for a relatively short time. I wish that I had found the foro sooner, but hey: In life sometimes things just happen the way that they do.

I appreciate the wish for people to find a way to continue the forum. I am myself also willing to for example pay a yearly subscription fee. However I am concerned that people make promises in a moment of good will, and later forget to follow up. I myself have done this in the past numerous times. I do not wish to be pessimistic, but it would be a shame if someone invests a lot of time to save something on the basis that there will be a certain amount of support. Only to discover that in a year or two, the promised support has diminished to an unsustainable level. The financial burden should not be met by the people who volunteer their time.

On another note, it may not be a bad idea to just start over, as has been suggested before. One of the problems of a mature forum like this one is that all the answers are in the archives already. So the default answer to any newcomers is to consult the archives. This limits the need for actual conversation.

There is always a way forward if there is the desire. However, the way forward sometimes is different to what we currently imagine.

Love to all
Njål Bendixen

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 9:41:06

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Njål Bendixen)

You raise some good points. I am not going to run this place on donations that may come and go. They have their place, but it has to cover itself sustainably or it is dead.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 10:26:12

payaso

Posts: 85
Joined: Dec. 7 2014

RE: I'll miss this place.. (in reply to Escribano)

Donations for set-up costs but subscriptions for sustainable running. Is there a way we can we see how many would donate and how many also subscribe? Many of the regular contributors and self-styled 'lurkers' have enjoyed this site for years.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2017 10:42:54