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Which palo is this song?   You are logged in as Guest
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danuneken

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Oct. 10 2017
 

Which palo is this song? 

Hey guys!
New dude on the block here. Nice forum!
I'm doing a little article on some aspects of Flamenco and I'm using "Los Cuatro Muleros" by Estrella Morente.
Now I'm not sure what palo this is, and I need to know. The palmas suggest a bulería type rhythm (6es, 12?), but it's really too regular for that. The singing doesn't even seem to mind what the palmeros do, but it all comes together beautifully as is usually the case with great artists.
Any help appreciated thanks!!
Cheers,
Dan.
https://youtu.be/iXZraIjYjCY
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 11:45:06
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to danuneken

Bulerias (in 6s). What I really like with this track is how the guitar progressively hints at becoming more traditional but it never quite gets there.


There is one (Limon de Cera) bulerias on Camaron's live Nuestro album with pretty much the same palmas throughout much of the track, and another (Carmela) that uses it too.

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tú ahora no me conoces.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 12:21:10
 
danuneken

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Oct. 10 2017
 

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to Dudnote

Thanks! I'm of the same opinion, but the Camaron tracks are much more clearly bulerías with the compás going around at 12es.
Going with bulerías, unless I get some convincing other opinions.... :-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 12:48:37
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1907
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to danuneken

Cuartro Muleros is not any palo. It is a popular song, allegedly recuperated by Lorca. It is normal for this kind of thing to be accompanied in compás of bulerías or tangos. There are quite a few of these folk songs skirting round flamenco.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 12:57:19
 
danuneken

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Oct. 10 2017
 

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to Morante

Hi Morante.
Thanks.
It's really only the palmas that make it bulería-like. Mmmmm. I guess I won't mention any palo at all.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 13:15:37
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 728
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to danuneken

Lorca resurrected what was a villancico (song of winter time – pagan in this case). He made a piano arrangement in 3/8 time and accompanied La Argentina who sang and played castanets. You will find versions close to this performed by some famous classical singers.

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 14:01:08
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13344
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to Morante

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

Cuartro Muleros is not any palo. It is a popular song, allegedly recuperated by Lorca. It is normal for this kind of thing to be accompanied in compás of bulerías or tangos. There are quite a few of these folk songs skirting round flamenco.



Plus 1. Thumbs up. Like.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 16:31:37
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13344
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to danuneken

quote:

ORIGINAL: danuneken

Hi Morante.
Thanks.
It's really only the palmas that make it bulería-like. Mmmmm. I guess I won't mention any palo at all.



Compas and palos are two different things....sort of like a 12 bar blues verses a bluesy song or one that swings that might not be a proper blues structure. One could say fandango has a compas in 3/4, like in huelva styles, however a singer can sing a fandango Copla to compas of solea, buleria, tango, rumba, tanguillo etc etc. Think of compas as a "treatment" of a melody not as part of the melody itself. That's why they use the adjective "por buleria" or "por bla ba" to describe the treatment of a song melody. And not just singing.... a guitar solo might be described the same way....for example "Rondeña" for guitar players is a special tuning and key, so "Rondeña por buleria" the falsetas will be set to compas of buleria.

Therefore you could describe her version as "song of Garcia Lorca SET TO THE COMPAS OR RHYTHM OF BULERIAS". Hope that makes sense.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 16:37:50
 
danuneken

 

Posts: 4
Joined: Oct. 10 2017
 

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to Ricardo

Quite! Thanks RobJe & Ricardo for pointing those aspects out. I knew it was a villancicos and the singing matches that. I was just thrown off by the rhythm and struggled to make sense of it. That has now been solved. :-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 10 2017 18:24:47
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1762
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Which palo is this song? (in reply to Morante

quote:

Cuartro Muleros is not any palo. It is a popular song, allegedly recuperated by Lorca. It is normal for this kind of thing to be accompanied in compás of bulerías or tangos.


There’s a beautiful bulería by Sabicas and Escudero in which they munge together Anda jaleo, Zorongo and Los cuatro muleros. It’s on Fantastic Guitars, and is called Fantasía andaluza.

Give it a listten.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 11 2017 14:59:22
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